Letterman not smart
Suffering from insomnia I occassionaly let the TV pause at David Letterman’s show from New York. Sometimes it is mildy amusing but has little to recommend it other than there is mostly only rubbish on the other channels.
Last night Letterman gave us all a brief glimpse into his intelligence
From Opinion Journal
Letterman to O’Reilly: ‘I’m Not Smart Enough’ to Debate War
It didn’t take long for fireworks to erupt last night when Fox News Channel’s Bill O’Reilly guested on David Letterman’s “CBS Late Show,” with the late night host finally admitting he wasn’t “smart enough” to engage in a debate over the Iraq war.
The verbal fisticuffs began when Letterman asked if O’Reilly had a good holiday.
O’Reilly responded: “I had a nice Winter Solstice,” prompting a contentious exchange over whether Christmas traditions were indeed under attack.
But the confrontation really heated up when Letterman suggested, “Let’s talk about your friends in the Bush administration. Things seem to be darker now than they might have been heretofore.”
The comments prompted O’Reilly to launch into a point-by-point defense of the Iraq war, beginning with the argument that even if U.S. intelligence had “screwed-up” on weapons of mass destruction, “for everybody’s protection, it’s best for the world to have a democracy in that country functioning and friendly to the West.”
Letterman seemed to turn downright hostile, however, after O’Reilly defended U.S. soldiers and attacked Cindy Sheehan.
“The United States, particularly the military, is doing a noble thing – the soldiers and Marines are noble,” the Fox host insisted. “They’re not terrorists. And when people call them that, like Cindy Sheehan called the insurgents ‘freedom fighters,’ we don’t like that. It is a vitally important time in American history and we should be very careful of what we say.”
The comment prompted Letterman to admonish O’Reilly, “Then you should be very careful about what you say, also . . . I’m very concerned about people like yourself who don’t have endless sympathy for a woman like Cindy Sheehan. Honest to Christ, honest to Christ.”
The sometimes volatile Fox host let the personal attack slide and continued arguing his case.
A few moments later, Letterman threw in the towel, admitting: “I’m not smart enough to debate you point to point on this.”
The CBS star, however, couldn’t resist tempering his concession with one last insult, telling O’Reilly in the next breath: “I have the feeling that about 60 percent of what you say is crap.
It’s worth repeating.
I’m very concerned about people like yourself who don’t have endless sympathy for a woman like Cindy Sheehan. Honest to Christ, honest to Christ.
Honest to Christ, I’ll never be caught watching Letterman again.
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Cindy Sheehan ? Thats the woman who lost her son ?
Its often said that the worst thing in the world is for a parent to outlive their child. I expect it must be even worse when your child dies for a cause which is so ambiguous…. WMD’s ??? Liberation ??? When the country breaks apart, I wonder what the justification will be then ??? I suppose at that stage no one will care….
If O’Reily is correct and “for everybody’s protection, it’s best for the world to have a democracy in that country functioning and friendly to the West” I find it odd that the logic does not apply to North Korea, Burma, etc. Perhaps democracy is best for those countries with oil !
You would find it odd that the logic doesn’t apply to Nth Korea etc. The terrorist/extreme muslim problem is Middle East based and you might notice Iraq is in the middle of the Middle East. Democracy in Iraq will push others toward it. Why do you think the terrorists are fighting? It’s about power over the people. They know if democracy takes route in the middle of their shithole the people’s voice will get louder. They will demand and get things like a decent education and woman’s rights. Their children will not start life with the yoke of ignorance developed from the teachings of the clerics. You, of course, will not have noticed but it is happening now.
The communist failed states of Nth Korea, Cuba, et all are a different problem but you already know that, don’t you John?
Kev,
I sympathise with Cindy Sheehan as I do for the soldiers and marines etc who have no choice but to obey orders from poiticians.
They are noble men and women but they are not fighting a noble cause.
Ff the casue was as noble as O’Reilly says why then has the US adminstration decided that they will not spend a cent more on the reconstruction of the country that they have flattened. What sort of message is that sending to the ordinary Iraqi who is not involved in insurgency etc.
It says that the US administration has now lost the political will to spend more money on the country. Maybe they are hoping to shore their vote for the mid term elections. On present indications the Republicans will cop a hiding.
I see old Abramoff has rolled over and will take a few Republicans with him. How corrupt is this party and administration. Time will tell and I look forward to the trial of Libby and and the dobbing of Abramoff and the fall out for the Republicans in due course.
Bush is wavering and the recent back downs and admissions of many failures is a belated attempt to regain some stature.
I suppose a man of God like him can always admit a mistake even thought it took a long time for it to get through.
The man is a lame duck and I believe that he has been used by Draft dodger Cheney and others to do things that people like Powell and others may have baulked at.
The effect of this debacle and expedition is that we have an Iran who no longer has a government of Saddam at its borders to keep them subdued no matter how distateful and oppressive it was. What we have now is a chaos and spreading innsurgency and continuing losses of local and US troops with the slow erosion of support for an unwinnable war.
Cuba ? Where did that come from. Since when has Cuba been a threat to global security outside of the showdown between Kennedy and the Reds back in the 60’s…. Oh yeah. Castro is sending out spies to bring down capitalism…. chuckle chuckle chuckle ! ! !
As to the terrorists in Iraq, I thought the invasion was justified on the basis of removing a despoit leader called Saddam Hussein who was not an extreme muslim jihadist but rather a secular ruler. In invading and creating anarchy in the country, we provided a breeding ground for the terrorists which was not there previously. So now the reason we’re in Iraq is to stop the terrorists right ??? Seems like some weird, muddled logic to me….
So as the original (or perhaps “revised” is better) reason for the invasions was to get rid of the evil man Saddam, thats all well and good, but what about the evil leaders in North Korea or Burma…. are they less evil…. how many North Koreans must die of starvation before we consider their liberty to be of equal value to an Iraqi’s liberty ???
you need to all shut up because cindy sheehan’s son died that makes her infallible and you cna’t ever criticize anything she says, SHE IS YOUR GOD!!!!!
Johns just putting the tiered old staw man argument ‘if we arnt doing all then we shouldn’t do any’
I doubt he is advocating military conflict with North Korea. If he is then his concern for casualties is mute. Since it would be on a scale a thousand times more then Iraq.
“as I do for the soldiers and marines etc who have no choice but to obey orders from poiticians.”–peter
bla bla bla!
I read your ‘sympathy’ before. Don’t waist time saying something so meaningless. Your not fooling anybody little man.
Suicide bomber strikes at funeral
A SUICIDE bomber blew himself up in the middle of an Iraqi funeral procession overnight, the bloodiest in a string of attacks across the country that left 50 dead and scores more wounded.
The bomber, wired with explosives, walked up to a group of about 100 Shiite mourners burying the victim of a drive-by shooting in the small town of Mukdadiyah, about 100km northeast of Baghdad, before detonating his bomb at the graveside.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17735393-38201,00.html
More violence, the likes of which rest directly upon the shoulders of the incompetent American
politicans who have stuffed this war from the start. Fancy standing on a aircraft carrier under the banner “Job Done”. Those that planned this war should hang their heads and reflect on the lot of the average Iraqi who has no security
Gary,
Who are you fooling?
Bush isn’t fooling the majority of the US voters who now realsie what a dud he is and was.
Where do you think soldiers ultimately get their orders from – why the President of course and the defence secretary the Draft dodger Rumsfeld.
You are fooling yourself if you think that all wil be right in iraq and that it will be a beacon for demcracy.
Wake up kleine mann!
John
It was “mission accomplished” and it was directed at the crew coming home.
It shows how week your case is if you constantly need to resort to distortions like that.
“You are fooling yourself if you think that all wil be right in iraq and that it will be a beacon for demcracy. “–peter
I hope it turns out like that the alternative is what you hope for.
My mistake about Mission Accomplished. Yes Kev, I am preparted to admit when I make an error. As its the first time I’ve mentioned it, to suggest I constantly resort to such distortions is, itself, a distortion !!!
Let’s hope democracy does come to Iraq. For every bomber that kills, as a citizen of a country which is responsible for bringing turmoil and a lack of security to Iraq, I feel a measure of responsibility.
Sadly, the Sectarian violence shows no let up.
If only Rumsfield had a brain and thought through the gravity of what they were trying to achieve, so many innocent lives may have been saved.
John,
so what you’re saying is that it would be better to have left Saddam in control of Iraq?
Sanctions had become a joke thanks to the corruption of the process by the UN.
France, China and Russia seem to have no qualms in rearming him.
The question I suppose is how long it would have taken before he felt he was ready try invading a neighbour again or would this be left to his sons?
I can’t find it but I read an interesting interview of a weapons inspector from which you would be in no doubt that not only had Saddam not given up on the idea of owning WMDs but that he still had them.
Not only the Republicans but the Clinton Administration believed this. So did other intelligence agencies and the UN.
The issue of the Nigerian uranium is not conclusively dispelled by Joe Wilson’s efforts which almost seem planned to produce a negative answer without any effort being made to establish the truth.
By the way my apologies for swearing last time but you do seem to have such an excellent ability to get peoples’ backs up.
Peter B
“Let’s hope democracy does come to Iraq. For every bomber that kills, as a citizen of a country which is responsible for bringing turmoil and a lack of security to
Iraq, I feel a measure of responsibility.”
You aren’t fooling anybody – you want us to lose, if your side wins they will kill you and your family – just how stupid does that make you?
“Sadly, the Sectarian violence shows no let up.”
Actually, it shows every sign of letting up, look up the stats on attacks – they are declining, which is a shame in many ways, every time they blow up some
innocent Iraqi civvies its an own goal that pisses off their friends and families.
“If only Rumsfield had a brain and thought through the gravity of what they were trying to achieve, so many innocent lives may have been saved.”
Given that Bob Cotgrove from the University of Tasmania has pointed out that the poverty Saddam enforced on his nation created a massive death toll, in the late 1990s,
66,900 more people died a year in Iraq than would have been the case had the death rate been the same as in neighbouring nations (this figure does not include murders/executions).
Of this number, 41,300 were children – it seems that Rumsfeld has a brain and has thought it through. perhaps it would be nice if you did and had?
– Not saying that at all. Simply stating the obvious fact that since the invasion, lack of security has resulted in the deaths of many civilians. The unwillingness of supporters of the war to acknowledge this, and continue with rose coloured glasses is odd.
– The Yanks had no qualms arming Osama Bin Laden during the Soviet occupation of Afganistan. Whats your point ?
– Are you fairdinkum ? The fact that the moon is not made from cheese is also not conclusively dispelled
– Moronic statement by one who obviously lacks the ability to debate with rigor. Was surprised you didn’t slip in the unAustralian call. So typical of the right. They cant even accept that perhaps some people aren’t easily put in the left or right camp. Cant you get away from the “with us or against us” mentality ?
Oh yeah ??? Twin bombs kill 80 in Iraq
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17741916%255E2703,00.html
Though I’d like to think your right. But I’m reluctant to swing from the roof shouting all is well is Iraq when obviously, some pretty serious s**t is going down.
Obviously an academic of renown ? I’ll hunt down his work and review it for myself. Though even if true, surely applying the same logic to North Korea is appropriate. How many die at the hands of that brutal regime. Yet the Yanks do nothing ?…. oh yeah…. no oil in North Korea… forgot about that
“The unwillingness of supporters of the war to acknowledge this, and continue with rose coloured glasses is odd.”–John Dosan
You and peter continue to repeat that line when it has been shown not true in other threads. I guess its only for own benefit to reinforce your opinions.
“The Yanks had no qualms arming Osama Bin Laden during the Soviet occupation of Afganistan. Whats your point ?.”–John Dosan
Osama was only a miner player. His PR and willing dupes in the west made him bigger then what he was.
“Are you fairdinkum ? The fact that the moon is not made from cheese is also not conclusively dispelled.”–John Dosan
?
Has anyone written Dosan a ‘Dear John’ letter recently? These little polemics are getting somewhat predictable.
so what you’re saying is that it would be better to have left Saddam in control of Iraq?â€?–Peter B
“- Not saying that at all.”–John Dosan
Really!
When your first reaction is to blame the Coalition and dismiss Bob Cotgrove’s conclusions. Its not an unreasonable question for Peter B to ask. Nor have you said anything for us not to be suspicious about your intent.
Please write me a long one. Publish it here and I’ll respond. Ball’s in your court.
Easy there. Did I dismiss his conclusion ? I made a smart arse comment due to the fact that I have never heard of him before but did I dismiss ? Rather, I suggested that if the (revised) reason for the invasion is to remove a tyranical leader from killing his own people, surely that logic must apply to other tyranical regimes. Tell me, do you approve of the starvation of North Koreans ? I’m guessing not. Yet you dont support the invasion of North Korea, yet do support the invasion of Iraq. If your not prepared to admit that supporters of the invasion do not apply the same standards rigorously to all countries, you’re really in DENIAL
Guys. I really expected a bit more from this debate. You’re all making me look good !
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/us-evangelist-sees-hand-of-god-at-work/2006/01/06/1136387600942.html
Thank God for the idiots in the US Christian Right… Without them, where would we find humour in the world
Dear Boys,
lay off poor old John.
Please I need the attention and am only too willing to return the fire.
Looking forward to mre abuse and right wing propaganda.
I told you that I made a resolution in the New year to be polite you blokes.
Please hurry up as I am missing the fun.
“- Moronic statement by one who obviously lacks the ability to debate with rigor. Was surprised you didn’t slip in the unAustralian call. So typical of the right. They cant even accept that perhaps some people aren’t easily put in the left or right camp. Cant you get away from the “with us or against usâ€? mentality ?”
Yet I note that you fail to address the point. if your side wins, they will kill you. Just how stupid are you Johnny boy?
“Oh yeah ??? Twin bombs kill 80 in Iraq
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17741916%255E2703,00.html
Though I’d like to think your right. But I’m reluctant to swing from the roof shouting all is well is Iraq when obviously, some pretty serious s**t is going down.”
FMD ‘oh yeah’ as a rebuttal is generally considered to be pathetic after 4th grade.
look up the numbers of deaths from terrorist attacks, not how many die in one attack – they are way down and, yet again, you look like a fool.
“Obviously an academic of renown ? I’ll hunt down his work and review it for myself.”
Or to put it another way ‘oh fuck, what do I do now, I know, I’ll stall for time and hope that nobody notices that I never mention it again’.
“Though even if true, surely applying the same logic to North Korea is appropriate. How many die at the hands of that brutal regime. Yet the Yanks do nothing ?…. oh yeah…. no oil in North Korea… forgot about that ”
one at a time Johnny, one at a time – unless you agree to vote for conscription, then, who knows, we may just have the numbers when we send you and your mates to save those North Koreans, I’ve done my time – are you up for it Johnny? will you put your money where your mouth is?
“Guys. I really expected a bit more from this debate. You’re all making me look good ! ”
Only in your own mind Johnny boy.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=bob+cotgrove+university+of+tasmania+iraq&meta= should help you find the basics of Bob Cotgroves work, I expect we’ll hear from you in the next day or so on this subject will we Johnny?
Harry,
Pick on me not poor John.
A quick lesson in linking for you all using comment #19 as an example.
Thank God for the idiots in the US Christian Right… Without them, where would we find humour in the world.
Mark “Us Christian Right” press the link button(above) and insert the link. It’s easy, makes my comments look neater and justifies Gary’s work in making the formatting available. If the formatting buttons aren’t visible on your screen then press the single button above this box.
John Dosan. I don’t think any of the mad US extreme Christian right would visit my site so your point is most probably lost.
There are people all over the world suffering from stupid leaders..we can’t invade them all. You may have noticed Nth Korean aren’t blowing up our woman and kids yet exteme muslims are. Extreme muslims emanate from the ME and at this stage, Iraq…a democracy with it’s education and understanding of human rights would produce less extreme muslims…thus forcing a democacy in Iraq is a plan that well may help the world rid itself of terrorism. A Plan…an idea to fix the problem..something I note is absent from the words of all anti-war merchants. You don’t have an alternative…you do not understand the problem to start with and thus have no idea of how we may go to addressing the problem.
All you do is carp about how it isn’t going to work as the US plan progresses down the track towards democracy.
Try this….what would you have done as POTUS after 9/11? Put up a viable alternative and people might listen to you…they might even treat your opinions with some respect because, quiet frankly at this stage you are not debating. You are simply pepperpotting the ideas of greater men, of men who, when confronted with a problem, develop a plan to do something about it. That’s what leaders do….they come up with a plan and then impliment it.
Tell me your plan or leave.
John
I’m for nuanced debate but I think your stretching it shoving that little talking point. Besides its like it isn’t already being discusd.
‘Crazy Pat Robertson‘
‘Pat Robertson Is Insane‘
Both right wing blogs
Kev,
You have been invaded by fuckwits.
Why would anyone care if dumbfuck Sunnis blow up dumbfuck Shiites? Why anyone would blame President Bush for this problem is beyond me. Like the Iran/Iraq war we should just pull up a seat, crack a few coldies, and watch the silly fuckers blow each other up.
The main interest in going into Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter) is to secure bases to continue the lengthy war to destroy the death cult called Islam. Humiliation of Islam is just a nice secondary interest.
Iraq should have been dealt with like we dealt with the Germans in WWII (the fire bombing of Dresden springs to mind)or the Japs (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the fire bombings of Tokyo).
I can’t wait until we take out Iran. Your fuckwits will be wringing their hands again about how bad we are. Oh, and I have no doubt that the bases secured in Iraq will be the front staging posts for the attack.
John Dosan, you are a pathetic piece of dhimmi shit.
#25 this is not helpful.
Perhaps if you weren’t a troll (John is that you?)you’d appreciate that deliberate murder is deliberate murder.
Peter,
your vitriol has been clipped. If you cant debate without resorting to abuse then go elsewhere.
#26 Peter
Are you implying that my father’s generation, many of whom died to protect your right to talk rubbish, committed deliberate murder when they declared total war on their enemies and carried it out?
You do not murder the enemy – you kil them.
youcancallmemeyer,
putting words in my mouth won’t work.
At what stage did I say that the Allied forces committed deliberate murder?
My issue is that civilian deaths in war are an unfortunate and regrettable outcome of military operations.
Professional forces work to minimise this often putting themselves in danger to do so. Terrorists/murderers set of bombs in market places.
Declaring war on Islam et al means attempting to remove one billion people unless you believe that at some stage people will start converting to avoid death. If yes do you want to tell me how you prove a sincere conversion. Note: this has been tried before look up conversos on the Net. I don’t think the results were satisfactory.
I have no problems with targeting the bad guys, whether Sunni holdouts or imported terrorists in Iraq, Taliban in Afghanistan/Pakistan, or if push comes to shove Iranian forces attempting to prevent the destruction of nuclear weapon facilities.
Otherwise I read your posting not as a “statement of steely resolve� but as a troll trying to prove the extreme views of RWDBs. If not my apologies but that’s how it read. To often I’ve found the extreme right to be masquerading lefties trying to inflame the situation.
As to #27: peter, what vitriol?
#29 Peter B,
In response to my post # 25 the only thing of substance you said in your post # 26 was:
“…you’d appreciate that deliberate murder is deliberate murder.”
I’m sorry if you feel that I put words into your mouth and it is possible that I misunderstood your comment in my reactive post #28.
May I explain why I reacted so by referring you again to my post #25.
Paragraph 1 – Observation that Kev had suffered an invasion of the not so bright. Not murder.
Paragraph 2 – Expression of my schadenfreude at a past “Islamic love in” and my earnest hope that they go at it again in Iraq. Not murder.
Paragraph 3 – My opinion of what the main interest is in going into Iraq. Not murder.
I used these words:
“…to continue the lengthy war to destroy the death cult called Islam.”
Substitute the words “Nazism” or “Japanese Imperialism” for the word “Islam” and no normal person would have any objection to these words. The words “war”, “destroy” and “Islam” when put together in this way do not equate to murder.
Paragraph 4 – I assumed, and I may be wrong, that you were referring to this paragraph.
The destruction of all things that give power to the enemy, including civilian populations, were considered fair game by all sides in WWII. I think it was called total war. If this is murder you must be using a different definition of that term than those who fought WWII.
Paragraph 5 – More opinion by me. Hoping for war is not murder last time I checked.
Paragraph 6 – Gratuitous kick at a useful idiot.
Now, you might enlighten me as to where the suggestion of deliberate murder was in my post #25.
Further,
You said:
“My issue is that civilian deaths in war are an unfortunate and regrettable outcome of military operations.”
I say:
This is a post WWII “liberal” view only practiced by the US and their allies when it suits them (see the bombing of Serb civilians by the US (under Clinton) to protect Islamists during the break up of Yugoslavia. You should tell the enemy that civilian deaths are an unfortunate and regrettable outcome of war – it will give them a good laugh.
You say:
“Professional forces work to minimise this often putting themselves in danger to do so. Terrorists/murderers set of bombs in market places.”
I say:
See my comments above re total war.
We do not set off bombs in market places and I see no equivalence.
You say:
“Declaring war on Islam et al means attempting to remove one billion people unless you believe that at some stage people will start converting to avoid death. If yes do you want to tell me how you prove a sincere conversion. Note: this has been tried before look up conversos on the Net. I don’t think the results were satisfactory.”
I say:
Where do I start with this. Firstly, to TOTALLY destroy any death cult is next to impossible. There are still Nazis in this world and their are still Japanese Imperialists and lots of Communists. Because we cannot totally destroy something that is evil does not mean that we should not try. We didn’t kill all Germans to defeat Nazism nor did we kill all Japanese. Both seem to be doing quite nicely last time I looked.
Destruction of an ideology does not require destruction of all of its adherents. A good start would be to start destroying all mosques and “holy” sites in the world. Targeted killings like those being carried out in Israel are very effective and should be used more liberally (if you’ll pardon the pun).
Total ban on all moslem immigration to the west and forced export of those who do not denounce the death cult. Declaration by westerrn countries that Islam is a criminal organisation in their countries. Those who continue to practice the death cult in the west to be targeted like the mafia (imprisoned as criminals)then exported. I have lots more suggestions, other than murder, if you are interested.
What I say today may sound radical but it won’t in a few years.
So Johnny, how did your reading up on Bob Cotgrove go? oddly enough we haven’t heard back from you on that subject yet.