Who’s winning?
A good post on just who is winning the war in Iraq from Samizdata
When it comes to the future of Iraq, there is a deep disconnect between those who have firsthand knowledge of the situation — Iraqis and U.S. soldiers serving in Iraq — and those whose impressions are shaped by doomsday press coverage and the imperatives of domestic politics.Both Samizdata’s post and the links are worth reading.
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I bet those families who’ve had a family member recently killed by a bomber agree with you….
Anyway…. who wants to here bad news…. as mummy says, what you dont know can’t hurt you….
Give me a pair of your rose coloured glasses….
Bye-Bye Barry Bones. You add nothing to the debate. No further comments of yours will be allowed through
The media is without doubt the most powerful political tool that exists. The fact that articles like this are considered cutting edge news confirms that mainstream reporting is still quite biased, and there is no doubt that a lot of that bias is towards the left. I’ve heard it said that lefties in the media industries actually joke amongst themselves how much bias they can weave into their reporting. The right needs to find it’s media voice, and the media needs to be broadened so the public are actually forced to consider the issues for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions, rather than accept the tripe that is delivered to them in easy to consume servings.
I would like to see more reporting of facts and both points of view so the public can make up their own mind. There are too many who believe what they hear or see without any discourse to the politics of the .author. If you just watched ABC/SBS you would have a jaundiced view of Iraq, the US, Bush and Howard whereas if you look behind the news and the particular journo’s political allegiance then one might have reason to question the spin
Dear Kev,
The ability to listen to all points of view may be the test of a free society. To cut Barry off because he disagrees with your views is an example of a mindset that you and your mates may have fought against in Vietnam and now in Iraq.
If you cannot handle the debate then you might as well close down the site.
Let Barry have his say no matter how distasteful to you that it might be. Your filtering of comment is exactly what you are complaining about when you attack the press and the ABC etc .
I would hope that you would welcome constructive debate no matter how far to the “left” as you call it, it might be.
Peter, I closed Barry down because he wasn’t contributing to the debate. Neither of his comments could be defined as constructive debate – they were simply abuse.
err The ABS is a public company with a charter to serve all,peter.
Funny how you never see these champions of ‘free speech’ over at web diary or LP, Kev.
Dear Gary,
The last time I looked it was the ABC.
Thank God for it too.
I would have to have to put up with the parrot Alan Jones and his ilk.
If you want a blog site then you leave it open to all no matter how far to the left and right contributors might be otherwise it decsends to a forum for extremist one sided views.
I didn’t think that Barry was any worse than some of your more regular contributors. I agree with a lot that he has said.
You might want to close me down I return fire to some of them.
Dear Kev,
Who is winning the war.
10 marines killed, 11 wounded in one attack.
I thought that Fallujah was safe after the ooffensive last year.
Not enough troops there to hold ground as predicted by the former chief of staff.
Dear kev,
Good to see the US is paying journos to put the “good oil” in the press in Iraq.
They must be winning if they have to resort to paying to print good news.
I suppose propaganda comes in all forms. The may be able to show the leftie press a thing or two about peddling rubbish.
Peter
21 casualties in a force of about 150,000 doesn’t exactly indicate the war is lost.
BB
I see your ‘paying journalists to report the good oil’ and raise you countless number of journo’s doing the same for the terrorists free of charge.
Not to mention the ABC/SBS
Dear kev,
if the war is going so well why then the negative coverage from the free press. Is every negative report from a left wing journo.
You would think that the “objective media” would report that the war is being won if this were true and evidence supported that conclusion. Why do they have to pay for upbeat propaganda. It smacks of desperation and reminds me of the “kill rate” and the Johnso and McNamara press conferences from that other incursion in SE Asia.
You cannot accept that a civil war is happening and that many of the insurgents may be resisitng the occupation beacsue they don’t like being occupied by a foreign power no matter how bad was Saddam . Do you think it is now better than before from a personal security point of view for the Iraqi people.
Iraq reminds me of WW2 France where many disparate groups came together and joined in the resistance against a common enemy even though their political aims were way apart.
Causalties you may be insignificant in a large force. You might recall that the US army as in all armies is tail heavy.
It needs 8 to 10 troops ( non fighting soldiers) to support one fighting soldier. The ones that are being killed are front line troops eg Marines.
US recruiting levels are down and from the reports of Senator Murtha who has good connections in the US military who says that morale is down and equipment and troops are being chewed up. This is why so many National Guard units are being deployed. I think you would have described them as “choco’s” in your service days. I am sure that you would have been unhappy to have half trained reservists in Vietnam covering your rear end.
The casuaalties rate graphs does not report the large number of “head cases” who are disabled by their war service. Why are they left out of the casualty figures.
The US Defence Dept. also reports that this war per capita has resulted in more disabled soldiers (eg amputees) than any other war that they been involved in. These men are the visable and sad reminder of this unpopular war. They are the walking and shuffling reminder that this war is causing a rift in the US society.
Why is the war so unpopular and Bush’s popularity so far down if things are going so well. Do you think that over 6 out of 10 people are being conned by lefties in the press when they can switch on to Fox and have Murdoch’s bias in favour of the war.
Whe will Bush stop living in denial.
Are these people so stupid that they are being duped. Were they duped about Vietnam? Do they have to wait another 4 to 5 years until deaths reach 10 to 15,000 before they say enough.
I suppose the good thing is that Bush and his cohort will be gone by then and perhaps the will of the people will prevail and they will get out of this silly war.
Peter,
The throw away line Civil War doesn’t work. It was tried in Vietnam when it suited USSR, China and Nth Vn (the enemy) to have the world believe the South wanted a communist government. That little lie was laid to rest during Tet 68 when a few thousand South Viets answered the communist call. All the other troops you read about were the VC and NVA already down South. By that time the VC were shattered and reinforced with the invading NVA so there was really very little local Southern sympathy.
Vietnam was NOT a civil war and neither is Iraq
To be a civil war there must exist some preconditions for international recognition such as;
■ the contestants must control territory.
■have a functioning government,
■enjoy some foreign recognition,
■have identifiable regular armed forces,
■and engage in major military operations.
Iraq Disinformation
The US are losing the War as evidenced by IEDs blowing up 20 odd Marines
Bullshit!
Hard to tell but troops involved in this incident might total a 100 or so. To be generous let’s make it a complete battalion – maybe 700 or 800 troops. To the best of my knowledge that was the only news out of Iraq over the weekend.
I’m not suggesting the media are biased here but I wonder what the other 149,900 odd coalition troops were doing?
Some would be involved in security/patrolling/intelligence gathering and making headway; some would be involved in developing infrastructure such as sewerage, water, electricity while others in building schools and securing those schools so kids can attend.
Seen any coverage in the media about this lately?
A good proportion of these troops would be involved in establishing voting procedures, helping with the constitution, advising on democratic principles for government and generally helping to set up the civilian system of beaurocracy/civil service.
Seen any coverage in the media about this lately?
And that’s just the Coalition troops. There is now a large trained Iraq army with more coming on line so maybe 250,000 troops involved altogether in the war and maybe 700 or 800 have a bad day and you call it ‘Losing the war”
I don’t think so.
It is NOT a civil war and the Coalition is NOT losing – it is progressing slowly and will get there.
Dear Kev,
Keep up the delusion that all is fine there.
I hope to be around in about two years time when I can say to you I told you so.
Keep peddling the propaganda. It isn’t convincing 6 out of 10 Americans. They are the ones that count not Bush, Cheney etc. They will be gone shortly and I hope that the incoming leader can patch up the damage that this “expedition” has caused to their standing and prestige.
If Vietnam was such a success by the US why did they not stay around to the end and defeat the North. No matter what you say Kev it was a disaster for the US and I am afraid the same is happening in Iraq.
Dear Kev,
Vietnam was a civil war; the north against the South. remember the US Civil war; the north v the south etc.
Do I have to go on ad nauseam.
Dear Kev,
Progressing well in Iraq. I don’t think so because the yanks are now heading for a bug out just like Vietnam.
Bush is rattled. Have you seen the speech he gave to the Naval Academy? he wasn’t convincing. He is not convincing his own people that the war is going well.
His political will is wavering and no matter how much the troops might achieve this is the significant issue. Once the politicians lose their will then the troops will be pulled out. It works like that in a democracy.
If Vietnam was such a success by the US why did they not stay around to the end and defeat the North. No matter what you say Kev it was a disaster for the US and I am afraid the same is happening in Iraq.
I didn’t say it was a success I’m just saying it wasn’t a civil war. It was an Invasion by the North. Remember the divisions pouring down from the North and the millions of southerners fleeing after the war? INVASION not CIVIL WAR. Did you read any fucking thing I wrote?
Try argueing with facts. ANSWER – WHAT ARE THE OTHER 250,000 TROOPS DOING AND HOW DOES 20 ODD CASUALTIES TRANSLATE AS LOSING?