More boats…more drownings…more excuses
Listening to Home Affairs Minister Jason Claire on the ABC he said the issue of boat arrivals has become ‘poisoned by politics and;
‘’When people are dying the government should be given the power that it thinks it needs to stop this happening…”
As in, it’s the Coalition and the Green’s fault – not the ALPs.
The government has the power Jason. You had the power to stuff it up and now you have the power to fix it up
Gee, Rudd now thinks the UN refugee convention should be modernised to better cope with those most in need of asylum. How long will that take Kevin? Years
Plans announced to maybe build accommodation at Manis Island or maybe near Port Morseby. How long will that take Kevin? Years
People are drowning today, not in the future when the UN might or might not change things or buildings might or might not be built but until the government says things like – no papers – no visa and if you do have papers it is only temporary and if we say No then that’s it, then they will keep on coming and keep on drowning
You want to stop the boat people – then stop them.
NAVY insiders say there is “a growing and burning anger” among sailors on the frontline as they struggle to respond to the spiralling number of deaths and sinkings flowing from the government’s failed asylum-seeker policies.
There is also a “growing’ force of assetts tied up trying to manage Rudd’s stuff-up. The seven patrol boats allocated to the problem have been supplemented by a mine sweeper and a frigate, argueably more naval forces than we deployed during the Vietnam War.
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Simple stuff. TPVs and approach the coalition about bipartisan agreement on withdrawing from the UN refugee convention.
We do not need to be signatories to accept real refugees, we can determine who comes to this country.
A couple of weeks ago KRudd had talks with SBY of Indonesia. According to KRudd, SBY is very concerned about the boat people situation. So why have none of the people smugglers been charged with murder. Indonesia’s shoreline isn’t that big. Why hasn’t some one in authority noticed where these boats are leaving from. How come the UN hasn’t stepped in and done the job that they are supposed to be doing. And an even bigger issue with me is, why, when there are people overboard and other drowning incidents, it always seems to be women or kids.
Is there any one willing to answer these questions.
People are drowning today
There’s been a great deal of hypocrisy from the Right in the blogosphere about the drownings.
Generally, those who pretend to be upset by the loss of life are the same people who are demonizing boat people and calling them terrorists.
They’re the same people who are demanding that all refugees who come by boat should be returned (one way or another) to their country of origin – or anywhere except Australia.
It’s about as convincing as DiPierdomenico in drag.
Our inability to develop a bipartisan policy is ultimately responsible for the loss of life. The poisonous political atmosphere has prevented any cooperation on the issue. History has taught us that bipartisanship on the issue is the first step to a solution. It worked for 137000 Vietnamese who settled here. This is almost three times the number of boat people who have arrived since 2008.
It’s worth asking the question as to why the attitude to boat people changed from largely bi-partisan in the seventies and eighties to viciously divisive in the noughties.
In the early stages of the Vietnamese exodus, many did drown or were killed by pirates well to the north of our waters, and this was one of the main reasons for the multinational support that fairly swiftly was put in place.
Examine the history.
Remember the Comprehensive Plan of Action?
I’d be surprised if many posting here have heard of it. It wasn’t perfect, but in the final analysis it worked, and its outcomes were generally successful.
And why did the attitude change? John Howard let the genie of Xenophobia out of the bottle in 2001, and cynically used it to win an election. It’s been all downhill since from there.
Labor bear some of the responsibility, because lately they’ve joined the race to the bottom.
The only political group with any integrity in the situation are the much-maligned Greens.
Of course, back in the seventies and eighties, our national leaders on both sides were statesmen, not spivs.
what a colossal load of horseshit from one of the nets premier bullshit artists.
“There’s been a great deal of hypocrisy from the Right in the blogosphere about the drownings.
Generally, those who pretend to be upset by the loss of life are the same people who are demonizing boat people and calling them terrorists.”
Opinion and the opinion of a dickhead, name some names and prove that they are calling all queue jumpers terrorists – to save some time I’ll settle for 3 names of people who called that latest drowned kiddie a terrorist.
“They’re the same people who are demanding that all refugees who come by boat should be returned (one way or another) to their country of origin – or anywhere except Australia”
Not the same as saying “I’d like to see 1000+ of them face down in the East Timor Sea”.
“Our inability to develop a bipartisan policy is ultimately responsible for the loss of life. “
Utter crap and moronic to boot, this is the classic “if you don’t agree with my side you are just as responsible for the deaths as we are”
Listen and learn fuckwit – you have the blood of these people on YOUR hands as surely as if you held that latest kiddie underwater till the bubbles stopped coming up – YOU did this, with all your bullshit whiney faux compassion, don’t try to pass off your culpability on conservatives – we had this stopped cold and card carrying cunts like YOU started the deaths again – YOU were warned by ASIO, the AFP, UNHCR, the Indonesians and by the Coalition that demanding this compassionate bullshit policy from the ALP would restart the trade and kill people – so suck it up bitch, admit you were wrong and demand that your side of politics fix what your side broke and stop the deaths, until then just shut the fuck up.
You make me sick you self indulgent piece of shit.
Your reference to Vietnamese has no relevance. They were being killed, totured and sent packing to re-education camps by the Communists. The current mob are sitting in their shitty little lounge rooms in shitty little countries saying “lets get out of here – Australia has great social security payments and currently have a government so inept that they don’t even protect their borders – let’s go!
Generally, those who pretend to be upset by the loss of life are the same people who are demonizing boat people and calling them terrorists.
Not true. They are saying because they destroy their papers we don’t know and when in doubt don’t give the beneifit of the doubt.
And why did the attitude change? Nothing to do with Howard – Keating had already established the precedence of locking them up because all could see they were taking us for a ride.
The one simple reason we are having this debate is because Rudd opened the borders and when people raise other reasons they are trying to either justify a monumental stuff-up or trying to create a distraction.
Won’t work!
And don’t talk about the Greens having integrity – they have no integiry anywhere. Their stated aim is to destroy the nation’s economy.
Last time I looked the people smugglers were Indonesians operating out of Indonesian ports with Indonesian leaky boats. No Australian people involved. These people smugglers cannot be plying their murderous trade without someone in authority knowing what is going on. So why isn’t the UN looking into it.
Shove your bleeding heart numbers, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
I have the distinct feeling that you may have been cloned from DNA supplied by Neville Chamberlain and Arthur Percival out of Pollyanna, that’s why you only have a number.
“Generally, those who pretend to be upset by the loss of life are”…..in Government which is at present of Labor origin. If that were not the case then immediate action to prevent that loss of life would have been taken even if it meant admission of previous errors in the decision making process that has brought about this very dire situation. That action should have been taken at the earliest possible time, when the error became evident to everyone except the labor/greens (lower case intended) who for purely political reasons refused to accept that the previous deterrent methods worked. Perhaps a thousand or more people would have been alive to be unhappy about returning to their homelands.
I have said somewhere before that people who destroy travel/identity papers have dishonest intent. It is either to avoid identity checks or because Australia reserves the right to expel people deemed illegal immigrants and has a policy of not giving refugee status to persons who have crossed borders into countries that will grant them refugee status prior to arrival in Australia. This action is allowable under the refugee Convention, but if papers are destroyed previous landings cannot be checked as they are when the asylum seekers arrive by air. The application of this right to refuse is used when the asylum seeker stays for more than a week in a country that will grant asylum outside Australia. I wonder how many people are aware that the Govt. also has the right to bill the asylum seekers for their accomodation etc for he time in custody pending a decision on their status. Not only is that option not taken up, but we pay millions to lawyers to represent people who are not even Australian citizens. The word perplexing comes to mind along with incredulous.
Your reference to Vietnamese has no relevance. They were being killed, tortured (sic) and sent packing to re-education camps by the Communists.
It is entirely relevant. The killing and torturing and banishing to camps was true for the first tranche of Vietnamese refugees. As time went on, the situation changed, and many Vietnamese were fleeing economic hardship which only began to improve with the introduction of Doi Moi in 1986.
Again, read the history.
If we don’t understand it, we are condemned to repeat it.
This pattern of refugees initially fleeing killing and torture, and this morphing into people looking for a better life has been repeated in Iraq, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka and is characteristic of countries emerging from conflict.
The other relevance of the Vietnamese situation is that these people were fleeing wars largely resulting from our military intervention at the heels of the Americans. The same is true for Iraq and Afghanistan. We bear some responsibility.
Many of those fleeing Vietnam in the early eighties prior to Doi Moi were what would now be called economic refugees.
The current mob are sitting in their shitty little lounge rooms in shitty little countries saying “lets (sic) get out of here – Australia has great social security payments and currently have a government so inept that they don’t even protect their borders – let’s go!
Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese sat in their “shitty little lounge rooms” with exactly the same thoughts between 1980 and 1986. The numbers who actually made it to Australia were large – 137000. Somehow we seem to have survived this flood without social collapse. Funny how it wasn’t portrayed in the media as a flood”.
I wonder why?
Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that it wasn’t used as a political wedge.
Not true. They are saying because they destroy their papers we don’t know and when in doubt don’t give the benefit of the doubt.
The loss of papers is demanded by the people smugglers. They don’t necessarily destroy them – just confiscate them. You won’t get on a boat unless you hand your papers in – People Smuggling 101.
The shameful result of all of this is Rudd’s announcement yesterday.
Now there is no difference between the majors – refugees are political collateral.
We need a Sergio Vieira de Mello, one of the pioneers of the Comprehensive Plan of Action. It’s a great pity that Rudd’s diplomatic skills (which were a major contributing factor to the Papuan resettlement plan) weren’t put to better use back in 2008 with an updated version of the CPA.
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And don’t talk about the Greens having integrity – they have no integiry (sic) anywhere. Their stated aim is to destroy the nation’s economy
Funny that. I’ve read their policies over and over in an effort to find that stated aim, but can’t. Perhaps you can point it out for me.
just shut the fuck up.
You make me sick you self indulgent piece of shit.
If that’s the level of debate you’re at, find somewhere else.
Nice try you gutless piece of shit.
anything to hide from facing the facts, I guess you’ve finally learned that you always get caught out in your lies.
anything to hide from facing the facts., I guess you’ve finally learned that you always get caught out in your lies
Let’s have a look at my “lies” shall we?
Statements I have made on this issue –
1. The refugee issue was largely bi-partisan until the Tampa incident.
2. Many more Vietnamese were resettled in Australia than have arrived in the current tranche since Tampa.
3. This resettlement program, has by any measure, been successful.
4. It was the result of an international agreement under the auspices of UNHCR.
3. The Greens do not advocate as a policy the destruction of our economy.
OK – these are five statements. I challenge you you to fact check each of them and show me how they are “lies”.
Now let’s look at some of the assertions that appear routinely on this site. I’ve taken five for the sake of symmetry.
1. Boat people are likely to be terrorists.
2. We are being “flooded”by boat people.
3. Australia, an island continent, has international borders.
4. All boat people destroy their documents because they are not genuine refugees.
5. Boat people throw their children overboard.
Have a go at fact checking each of these statements.
Understand, if you have the brains, the difference between an assertion and a fact.
Show me where I have been “caught out”.
Then have a look at your own behavior.
3. The Greens do not advocate as a policy the destruction of our economy.
Their policies do not advocate the destruction of the economy but the implimentation of their policies would destroy the economy. Those that have been implimented under Gillard and Rudd have costs us billions in income and future development. Thousands of jobs lost and they’re still not satisfied
No coal fired power generation, no fishing industry, no cattle industry, no mining, no logging…….it goes on and on.
and here we go again – numbers doesn’t refuse to answer questions because he is offended by being called the lying piece of shit that he so clearly is, he uses faux offence as a way to avoid answering the questions that a hypocrite such as himself simply can’t answer – now that he feels that he has put a bit of distance between himself and the questions, he comes creeping back out.
Simple point. answer the questions previously asked of you (you might try naming the 3 people who called that recently drowned kiddy a terrorist for a start or simply admit that you lied. again.) and then I’ll address those that you have raised.
“It’s a great pity that Rudd’s diplomatic skills (which were a major contributing factor to the Papuan resettlement plan”…..I think you will evenually find Rudds diplomatic skills very similar to those of the much maligned AWB…..it all revolves around the dollar…..which will be more borrowed money. The same way Juliar got the independants onside….dangle the carrot
Hello 17…
The Vietnamese did not bring with them an ideology which despises us. Nor, has any other group or race done so. I suspect that most of us don’t really care where immigrants are from as long as their beliefs are compatible with ours and they don’t arrive in large numbers.
On the other hand, most of the boat arrivals since 2007 have brought with them a vicious, intolerant, murderous and misogynistic ideology. Having experienced it for over 6 years, I believe it is at least as evil as the beliefs and practices of National Socialism and 20th century Bushido.
This ideology slithers under the radar as it masquerades as a religion, and obtains protection thereby. Were its beliefs those of a political party, it would be stamped out of existence. How long for example, would anyone tolerate a political party that executed someone who left the party or, who ridiculed its founder?
To reinforce my point, following is an extract from the Saudi Arabia Customs website:
Prohibited
Alcoholic beverages are not to be imported under any circumstances
Israeli currency
Narcotics
Pornography (please note! the usual consideration of explicit material does not apply here, and material perfectly acceptable anywhere else may be considered offensive and un-Islamic)
Pork products
Religious books and material
Imitation and counterfeit goods
I know you are a Catholic, and if you visit Saudi you will not be allowed to bring in your bible, prayer book, crucifix or portrait of Christ. They search expats thoroughly and they don’t look the other way and smile if any prohibited material is found. Instead, it is confiscated and then the inquisition begins.
Mine went on for quite a while, as I brought in some brochures about the Barrier Reef for my Riyadh travel agent. They contained photos of girls in bikinis and that sent them wild.
Once inside, you can’t pick up certain foreign radio stations as the frequencies are jammed. Nor, can you buy a foreign magazine knowing that it will be complete. Instead, pages will be ripped out and/or articles blacked out because they show a woman’s face, Christianity is mentioned, Saudi is criticised, Islam is criticised or Israel or its people are treated sympathetically..
If this is what you want keep on the way you are and eventually, the attitudes in this clip will be commonplace. I hope you can then explain to your children why you facilitated the disintegration of their country:
http://www.cbn.com/tv/1509282970001
In the 1930s I doubt you would have welcomed Nazi Party members as migrants . Why then, about 80 years later are you happy to welcome those who hold similar deadly beliefs?
If this is what you want keep on the way you are and eventually, the attitudes in this clip will be commonplace.
I guess the Saudi Arabian authorities have every right to determine what is acceptable in their country.
That’s not exceptional. I wonder how I’d get on if I started shouting “Allah Akbar” in the terminal at LA International.
You also assume that everyone off a boat is a radical Islamist. A very large proportion are Coptic Christians, Kurds, Zoroastrians and Baha’i. Since the invasion of Iraq, half the Christian population has fled, (an estimated 330,000). A proportion of them have come here on boats. We have two families in our parish who arrived here that way.
Only 9.7% of Sri Lankans are Muslims. Most are Buddhists.
Again – your post is a series of assertions and a war story or two. If you’re going to debate, use facts and logic.
You could always start with fact checking my post.
“Since the invasion of Iraq, half the Christian population has fled, (an estimated 330,000″…..and not only Christians but a great many Muslims. You should not only quote from your almighty Christian publications. You belong to one of the bigger religious sects in the world but you should not quote only from their teachings. Keep it factual. Those fleeing Iraq have included a majority of Muslims.
“I guess the Saudi Arabian authorities have every right to determine what is acceptable in their country”….. if that is your guess then why do you seem to believe that Australia a basically Christian nation cannot do the same?
Sri Lankan asylum seekers are mainly economic immigrants according to those in the know. Religion hasn’t got much to do with it. They just are not refugees.
“I wonder how I’d get on if I started shouting “Allah Akbar” in the terminal at LA Internationals”….considering the lead up to and the exclamations at or after terrorist attacks around the world,most of us reading your mutterings wish you would do just that. Most of us also realise that your hatred of the yanks make the likelihood of travelling to LA very remote.
HRT I don’t know why you keep on giving this oxygen thief your time. He is only after what he can get out of it for himself.
He’s probably half sharia already.
Hello 17…
Once again you have brought light to my life – I did smile on reading your advice I should use facts and logic.
You wrote that I assumed “everyone off a boat is a radical Islamist”. Here’s a challenge 17… If you can point me to a comment in which I say that, then I’ll give $100 to Legacy the same day. If you cannot produce the proof I think it fair you contribute $100.
For what it’s worth, a second cousin of mine is senior in the AFP. He told me recently he used to be a lefty whose beliefs were similar to those you espouse. Not any more – his first hand experiences with Muslims in Australia changed all that.
As for your filler on who gets off the boats, go to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship and then review the Asylum Statistics. The vast majority of arrivals are from Muslim countries. Do you really believe that the majority of arrivals from these countries are Christians,Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus etc?
Some will surely be Christians, like the Iraqi businessman I met in the USA about three years ago. (Get your tin hat ready 17… here comes another war story). When I asked why he chose San Diego, he replied it was as far from Muslims as he could get.
He also had some scathing comments about Australia accepting them – but then, his opinion may have been coloured by his experiences. Like mine, you should disregard them as they are nothing compared to arguments from ignorance.
Your piece about shouting Allah Akbar in the terminal at LAX is a puzzle. I cannot see the connection between items prohibited by Saudi Customs, and that revolting phrase which so often accompanies destruction and murder.
In the past, I have followed your links but the results were problematical. As I recall, one led to a survey conducted in 1995 which you used to support your argument as to how things were in 2012. Another appeared to contradict your position while the third seemed to have been written by Kath and Kim.
Here are some facts. Of the 32 most wanted by the FBI, 30 are Muslims. Here is the link:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/@@wanted-group-listing
I understand there are 21 people (coincidence alert – they are all Muslims) in gaol in Australia for terrorism related offences.
You will enjoy this video:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PG7ofdaNiN8
The idiocy gets under way at about the 45 second mark. That screaming and ranting was what I heard regularly between 1990 – 1995 from the mosque outside the Riyadh building in which I worked. The “sermons” were directed at the evil and decadent West. Likewise, the cadets were warned over and over not to associate with us ie, their evil and decadent Western instructors.
Listen to it 17… and then perhaps you will understand what prompted me, after the second aircraft hit the WTC some 6 years after I left Saudi to say to my wife: This is no accident – this is the work of Muslims..
Do some research on recent events in the UK, Holland, Belgium, France, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. If you still believe we are in for a time of peace and happiness with a growing Muslim population, then it is clear you will believe anything.
He’s probably half Sharia already.
No completely Catholic.…
How’s the fact-checking working out?
What a joke, just had a glance on numbers blog, it took him till the 3rd sentence, in one article, to mention conscription. Must be some sort of a record.
“to mention conscription”
You’re the one with the obsession. This topic has nothing to do with the issue, but you’ve brought it up.
You obviously had a very effective irony bypass.
Just showing you up for what you are.
Just showing you up for what you are.
Now you’ve lost me – I point out that you introduced the issue after you claim I’m obsessed on the strength of one sentence in a blog post. You must troll through what I write looking for the slightest reference.
I’ve taught many kids on the Autism Spectrum over the years.
One of the characteristics of severe autism is obsessions with particular words, phrases or images. I think we all know yours….it starts with “c”.
I won’t write the whole word, as it’s bound to set you off again.