Responsibility outsourced
A TENTH asylum-seeker vessel in a week has arrived in Australian waters, as people-smuggling looms as a major issue in Julia Gillard’s talks today with Indonesia.
Just so you get the picture…..that’s TEN vessels in a week and SIX in 3 days knifing through the soft butter of our borders
Amid the ongoing political impasse over border protection, Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said authorities had intercepted a sixth asylum-seeker boat in 72 hours, this one carrying around 39 people.Come on, Julia…pick up the phone and talk to Narau. Admit you were wrong to undo Howard’s plan and make a command decision. People may give you a little credit back if you try and fix it. It’s not Abbott’s fault, it is yours. Outsourcing the problem to Houston et al is simply an abrogation of responsibility. You are the leader……Lead! Mr Houston will be joined by refugee policy expert Paris Aristotle and former Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Secretary Michael L’Estrange.
“They will act independently. They will form their own views based on the evidence and the facts,” Ms Gillard told said in Canberra.No they wont. If you have selected them then we already know the answer. Even Swan of the two weetbix receipt idiocy knows deep down something has to be done and the government must do it. So do something already. You can not let it simmer over the winter break.
Facebook
Twitter
Does any one know where I can get my hands on a derelict cruise ship…..only one voyage contemplated…..fully laden of course and at ten times the normal fare? No papers/visas will be required by passengers, but they may have to remain at the last port of call. They will be compensated by the Government for the rest of their life and that of their relatives and children also. Accomodation, although not 5 star to begin with, gets better with time. I don’t think I would have to offer great conditions for the two day trip and my bank manager will love me forever. The Government will be happy to see the revenue from overseas investors on the cruise and the money I spend at home and pay in taxes will no doubt be helpful with the economy.
“They will be compensated by the Government for the rest of their life and that of their relatives and children also”
Switch on ICD* –
“When an asylum seeker arrives in Australia, they do not get any Centrelink benefits. While their status is being processed, and if they meet certain criteria, they can be eligible for financial support from the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, administered through the Red Cross. This amount is 89% of the basic Centrelink allowance. This means approximately $405.84 per fortnight – over $260 less than a pensioner.
Once an asylum seeker is recognised as a genuine refugee, after a long and highly scrutinized process, they are given permanent residency and are then entitled to the same Centrelink, schooling and health benefits as anyone else. No more, no less.
The normal Centrelink welfare payment is $456 per fortnight, for a refugee with permanent residency and an Australian-born person. A pensioner in Australia receives $671.90. Over $200 more each fortnight. Even with family/parenting benefits, a refugee’s benefits would still be less than a pensioner’s income.
For an asylum seeker to qualify for any payment under the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, they must have lodged an application for a visa 6 months before, not be in detention, and not get any other payment or benefit.
To get a permanent residence as a refugee, the person has to prove they are a genuine refugee fleeing persecution, go through character, security and medical tests, and sign an Australian Values Statement”
Source – Department of Immigration and Citizenship
Might be an idea to get your facts straight before you write nonsense.
*Inbuilt Crap Detector
Booby, Booby,Booby…..I said compensated by the Government…..I did not say to what degree. That does not include community handouts and benevolent institutions’ gifts of clothing etc. Are you saying they are not being paid for by your Government (in the long run) or are you saying that they do not get paid highly enough? Are you saying that when they propagate that their children do not become Australian cits who then automatically become eligible for benefits? Are you saying that once set up they cannot apply to have immediate family join them in the land of plenty? Are you saying that risk takers with money are entitled to jump the queue? If you answer yes to the last you have no respect for the patient deserving people who have waited years in camps, in dire situations, to be able to take up the freedoms we can afford them when they arrive.
By the way pensioners are not as well off as you perceive unless they are claiming single benefits and sharing accomodation and living expenses. Pensioners…single $695.30…..couple $524.10 each. Too bad if you have paid taxes all your life and then fell on hard times. Have another latte Robert.
“They will be compensated by the Government for the rest of their life and that of their relatives and children also.”
This statement assumes a number of things –
1. No refugees ever become employed, and pay tax.
2. All “relatives” never become employed and never pay tax.
3. Their children never become employed and never pay tax.
Provide evidence for these assumptions.
And –
“Are you saying they are not being paid for by your Government (in the long run) or are you saying that they do not get paid highly enough?”
No. I’m saying that once they become Australian citizens, they are treated the same as everyone else.
“Are you saying that when they propagate that their children do not become Australian cits who then automatically become eligible for benefits?”
No. Their children are treated the same as my children and your children.
“Are you saying that once set up they cannot apply to have immediate family join them in the land of plenty?”
This has been a feature of out refugee intake for decades.
“Are you saying that risk takers with money are entitled to jump the queue?”
There is no queue.
Unless you can provide evidence for your claims, any reasonable person would have to assume that you have some deep-seated objection to Australian laws and the refugee convention. It might be more honest to say so.
1735099…..you are the one assuming many hidden truths here…..between the lines of my posts. Please cut and paste any reference I made in relation to “asylum seekers” or “refugees” into your next attempt to ridicule me…an uneducated buffoon that manages to get you to seek out references on the net, albeit poorly referenced.
Have I got your attention? I think so. In reference to your questions about refugees, all my statements about the passengers on my ship are correct….in the event that they do not or cannot obtain employment…..the guarantee is there…..they will be provided for by your Government with your money. They are provided for by the Government long before citizenship is contemplated and have access to services that hundreds of thousands of poverty stricken Australian citizens do not.
“There is no queue”.
Sounds like you are the sort of person that would attend a venue and when you find that it is full to capacity and that there is a queue, where every one is expected to wait their turn, seeks out another method of entry and is prepared to pay for the privelege of skipping in ahead of those waiting. Initially that means overloading the venue or there wouldn’t be a queue in the first place. When that happens the people waiting in the accepted “queue” have to wait. But not only do they have to wait for the numbers (prior to your appearance on the scene) to reduce or the allocation to be increased to enable them to enter, the numbers have to change by the original number plus you. That is okay though, you can afford to pay so you shouldn’t have to wait to go through the normal channels to gain entry.
Once again you say “there is no queue”. You should take a position in the corner wearing the pointed hat with the big “D” on it.
Slightly off topic,
The term the politicians use and media I come across is intercept.
Now if that’s interception I used to intercept the 7-15 ferny grove train to Central everyday.
What part of phone call and loc stat provided is interception.
On topic, numbers forgets the cost of processing per asylum applicant, legal fees, monitoring and checking, some of those cases run into hundreds of thousands (by some they are not the odd one or two), just ask the ALP and Craig Thomson about legal fees. He forgets the motel accomodation or even the modern billet $300-00 per week paid. He forgets that monitoring costs money and he tries to pretend they are thrown on the street without support.
No answer will be provided, pensioners and people born here are Australia’s responsibility people requesting Asylum, are applicants.
Stop being deceitful Numbers, some boat people cost almost as much as a fully trained special forces soldier or a GP in the bush.
Fleeing Indonesia after arrival on a Plane really isn’t seeking refuge. The reason they don’t come by plane to Australia is because they would go straight back.
“numbers forgets the cost of processing per asylum applicant”
Substantial savings would be made if properly organised transit camps, funded by the regional players (Australia, Malaysia, and Indonesia (using the Vietnamese boat people template) were set up in the countries of first refuge. The refugees could be processed swiftly and flown to Australia, in the same way as happened for the bulk of the Vietnamese.
The issue would fade as it did in the late seventies, early eighties, and would no longer be used as a political wedge.
Nice one, Numbers you don’t even follow recent history. The so called regional solution you espouse is going nowhere fast over more than two years so far. Not unless Australia takes all or most of them, 4 for 1 is Malaysia’s offer and then only 800.
You also seem to be forgetting the UN human rights signatures missing, somehow in your world our treaty signing is worthless, and your beloved comrades the ALP and here I will give the Greens their due (and normally I wouldn’t) they at least recognise the high court and it’s ruling and not playing fast and loose with human rights and human lives. With both Nauru and Manus though the countries had not signed the treaty at that time, those camps were administered by Australia and checked by UNHCR regularly.
No Bobby 17, you assist in culpable manslaughter and its costing us heaps for them to play russian roulette on leaky boats and no we can’t take all of the world’s refugees, we take more than our share. Australia does peacekeeping and also donates significant funding which does not get mentioned in various aid programs.
Now go away, and read this
http://www.bigpondmoney.com.au/illegal-boat-arrivals-what-it-really-costs
and it stands to reason that when we are getting no boat people there are no costs, 2001 to 2007. It was expensive for the Howard government to get on top of the issue, sure but it is 1 billion dollars a year now and the numbers are not decreasing.
You and Clive Palmer can both sponsor refugees, ol Clive’s big with the odd opinion or five, I wonder if he matches his mouth with his wallet outside of supporting a political party.
Start scoping the whole story and stop bull shitting. Its one billion dollars a year and rising we should not be spending.
Expensive bloody outcome all that money for 1000 drowned people. It’s not working and it was working you bloody incompetent do gooder.
What part of drowned people is a good outcome.
“and it was working”
The biggest myth of all. If you analyse worldwide trends at the time, there was a lull in refugee movements. It had very little to do with government policy.
Between 2002 and 2005 there was a global reduction in the number of refugees.
According to the UNHCR, the total number of people of concern fell from 20.8 million people in 2002 to 19.4 million in 2004. The total number of refugees fell from 10.6 million to 9.2 million people. During the period between 2002 and 2004, the global population of refugees dropped by 24%.
Most of the decline occurred in our neck of the woods.
Abbott has followed Goebbels’s strategy to the letter – i.e. if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
The other aspect about the “it worked” myth is for whom did it work? Did it work for those banged up in detention centres who were so happy that they sewed their lips together?
Did it work for those who committed suicide in detention?
Read these primary sources –
Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission. (1998). Those Who’ve Come Across the Seas: The report of the Commission’s Inquiry into the detention of unauthorised arrivals. Canberra, ACT: HRECO.; Steel, Z. & Silove, D. (2001).
The mental health implications of detaining asylum seekers. Medical Journal of Australia, 175, 596-599.
Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission. (2004). A last resort? The national inquiry into children in immigration detention. Canberra, ACT: HREOC.
Did it work for the Australian taxpayer who outlayed billions on the Pacific solution?
The only thing that worked was Howard’s whipping up fear and loathing to win power in 2001, and we have been paying for his cynicism ever since, as have the refugees.
“regional solution you espouse is going nowhere fast over more than two years so far”
What “regional solution”?
The Coalition has blocked the only aspect of a regional solution put in place so far.
“you assist in culpable manslaughter”
The greatest loss of life in one incident occurred in the days of the “Pacific solution”. See – http://sievx.com/
As I recall the Coalition was in power at the time. I don’t remember any hand wringing about those deaths on this blog about that incident.
The only time I have ever agreed with Clive Palmer is on this issue. He’s right – processing on the Vietnamese model and flying those accepted as refugees here is a rational and inexpensive strategy.
Neither Labor nor Coalition will do it because it would remove the opportunity to wedge.
Tony Kevin,Margo Kingston and Marg Hutton are absolute loonies, conspiracy theorists and rabid Howard haters who spend, or have spent, an inordinate amount of time trying to stitch up Howard for an event that happened in Indonesia.
They only have credibility amongst the useful idiots who follow such trash.
The Coalition has blocked the only aspect of a regional solution put in place so far. So has the High Court and coincidently The Greens but of course that never gets a mention. Rudd and Gillard totally stuffed a working solution and they can’t back down because that would be admitting they were very, very wrong and that Howard was right.
Hundreds have died because of that decision.
There in lies the problem. It has nothing to do with the Coalition and, I might add, the general public are well aware of all of this and it doesn’t matter how often Gillard and her crew go on about Abbott…Abbott…Abbott, they know.
“So has the High Court”
And that could have been changed by legislation that the Coalition refused to support.
Nobody in parliament is fair dinkum on this issue, not even the Greens, although at last they’ve been consistent.
The media are equally culpable.
Nowhere else in the world has this issue been flogged for base political effect the way it has here.
Generally I’m proud of my country, but when it comes to this issue, the stench of expediency lingers. We did a much better job of resettling Vietnamese because we had national leaders from both sides back then with integrity and guts.
Numbers:
1. There is a bloody queue you tool, people in refugee camps are displaced out of our system by their places. So you are a bloody liar. People who aren’t destroying their bloody ID and are just flat out trying to live and dont have airfare to Jakarta and a Lazy spare ten grand for a boat ride.
2. It was called the regional solution, one of the centres was to be based in East Timor, again you bloody lie.
3.Of course people were upset and shocked when that SIEV X went down but you ascribe motives without proof as usual. You slander and malign as quick and as you lie, some bloody Christian you are, you bloody disgrace.
4.The Malaysian solution was jerry rigged with Malaysia after Gillard got told to piss off nicely by East Timor after forgetting to ask them, how they felt to be a staging point for the regional solution. You mislead to the point of prevarication again.
5. You trot out an activist site as some kind of source, wank off. Not interested get a legitimate site as in unbiased or bugger off.
People are dieing now. Julia Gillard was approached by Abbott she sent him packing, too busy. Your mob is the bloody government not the coalition. What is the difference between Nauru and Malaysia, Nauru Australia controls the camps under UNHCR oversight and under Malaysia, Malaysia controls the outcomes no UNHCR and no Australian control.
The government could have brought back TPVS and detention instead they created a honey pot and probably 1000 people are dead because of it. Virtually no boats 2002 until 2007.
Mate what part of the phrase dead people don’t you get. The dead or the people part. They don’t advertise their presence until they get close enough to Christmas Island It’s called smuggling you cretin not advertising, look it up, hang on you might use.
Smuggle:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smuggling
1. To import or export without paying lawful customs charges or duties.
2. To bring in or take out illicitly or by stealth.
Every site should have a troll but mate you take trollery to new depths, while wearing a cloak of compassion.
You are a liar and a deciever. The government is the ALP and the Greens and the Independents it’s their bloody problem and their fault, you socialist stooge.
“you tool”
“bloody liar”
“you bloody lie”
“you bloody disgrace”
“you cretin”
“liar and a deciever”
There there. Feel better now?
With the abuse out of the way there’s no substance to your post.
The “queue” exists in the black and white and deluded imagination of those who haven’t a scintilla of understanding of the international refugee situation.
Take out a subscription to this journal – http://ijrl.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/2_and_3/238.short
You might learn something.
“Julia Gillard was approached by Abbott she sent him packing, too busy”
Really? Provide chapter and verse.
“they created a honey pot”
The “honey pot” is a respect for life and liberty that my father and I, amongst many others, fought for. The current policy trashes that. You can’t have it both ways. We either respect international refugee conventions, or we don’t. Do you?
“socialist stooge”
Thanks – as far as I’m concerned, the socialist bit is a complement.
As for “stooge” – never. Unlike some who post here I think for myself.
1 7 3 5 0 9 9…..you have claimed to be a watermelon wit. Like all of the socialist left and in this situation, that means you and Juliar the Messiah, an admission of any error is against your perception of maintaining control in line with Labor policy (which of course is produced on the run without thought for possible ramifications). With your education I wonder which part of “the current Government is responsible for current policies and legislation” you do not understand. The Opposition has no part in the mechanisms for which you constantly blame them.
I understand that you are a Laborite who empowers the Greens with your almighty vote. I for one hope you continue to place your allegiance with your chosen group, for it will make you one of a minority group very soon. By the way it is the party that you have chosen to vote for that is to blame for the current impasse, not Tony. You play the blame game constantly and you don’t understand who is at fault here. Educated but not smart, far removed from the real world. From what I’ve seen on this blog there is only one reader that gives any credence to what you have to say…..an embittered veteran that was conscripted after being deferred to complete his education qualifications and who hides behind a numerical reference, not only on his own blog but every site on which he espouses his views…..
1 7 3 5 0 9 9.
No mate you lie to all and sundry. Actually you are right in one thing, you are not a tool, you can use a tool for something, you are a weapon a poorly calibrated weapon allowing people to harm themselves by rewarding bad decisions, you say there is no queue and the UNHCR asks every country to take a share of refugees. Mate someone who lies about absolute certain facts is a bloody disgrace.
What you fought for, what the frikking hell, one minute on this blog you are bleating about your national service and now you are fighting for freedom, whose the SVN, the ALP whose exactly, one minute you wanted take consci objection but was not allowed, like that matters.
Leave your dad’s service out of it, unless he wants to comment on his own behalf, you even use his opinion.
Anyway what did you write, can’t read you must be all the unicorns farting agreement with on my internet connection.
anyway Mate do buy day wear at:
http://www.smiffys.com.au/716/SSP/Clown-Costumes/?gclid=CIvzyJmK_bACFVGZpAod-CDr-g
I’m done wasting electricity on you. Fighting for my freedom, piss off you sociopath, better men over generations fought for truth and just way of life for you to spit on their graves with your perfidious libels slanders and just outright fraud.
On a general note:
A conscience vote on TPVs and mandatory detention and no repatriation of family members except on legal application basis could be a conscience vote in parliament.
Nauru could be an option but the Malaysia deal in view of high court decision, makes Malaysia bad law, because the convention is signed. You don’t break a treaty knowingly on advice, you seek to rewrite the treaty agreement.
NO where in any argument have I heard about people being persecuted in Indonesia.
I respect Phillip Ruddock a great deal, he is a man of principle.
Please note I have left personalities out of this barring Phillip Ruddock who was a member of Amnesty International and so knew a bit about refugees.
This tribal nonsense is killing people.
You can’t outsource responsibility, you can’t delegate important responsibility.
If you take the pay you earn your pay.
I am watching madness manifest over egotistical nonsense.
I do not normally comment on personal opinions by those that write on here Kev, but quite frankly I am becoming more and more disturbed by ” numbers ” observations. I have even read his blog which add more to my concern over his ability to perceive reality. I would therefore wish that anyone knowing this person to tell him to avail himself of the many facillities offered by the DVA and listen to the recommendations of the doctors available.
Roly, very decent of you. I would have said “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, but Robert is definitely from another solar system so far removed that current search methods cannot locate it”.
The Soviets and the Communist Chinese made an art form of silencing dissidents by labelling them as mentally ill – http://www.jaapl.org/content/30/1/136.full.pdf
Surprising to see this technique used on a conservative blog.
When you lack the capacity to argue, just substitute abuse…..
1735099…..you are becoming repetitive…..a sure sign that no one you seek to impress is listening/reading. The Soviets and Comunist Chinese made an art form of slaughtering dissidents…..labelling must have become hard work considering the numbers of dissidents involved. The two greatest Communist/Socialist governments known didn’t have to be concerned about votes. It is amazing with the amount of information out there that democratic peoples still vote along red lines, and even elect leaders from known socialist/communist circles.
There are none so deaf as those who do not wish to hear Bobby. It is clear though that some of us think you should do a head count on the sheep in the top paddock.