Mal Brough
I have included a link on the left bar to a speech Mal Brough gave to the Deakin Institute. It paints a terrible picture of the situation that exists in Aborigine settlements and outstations and you should go and read the piece.
It has been our responsibility, as legislators over the last 30 years, starting with sit down money with Gough Whitlam and land rights under the Fraser Government. Those two single things did more to harm indigenous culture and destroy it than any two other legislative instruments ever put into the Parliament. And people look at me and say, land rights. Let me explain. You see, you can be land rich but be absolutely poor in every other way.I have always argued Land Rights do nothing for the dispossessed. It is often argued that the key to western civilization was the Title Deed. Only when you actually own a piece of land can you value it, borrow on it or just enjoy it. Everything else is dreamtime
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Kev
Thanks for posting Brough’s speech. Given tomorrow’s events it’s timely irrespective of political affiliations.
I believe he’s sincere and has been caught up in this tragedy despite himself. The references to past policy (Whitlam/Fraser) demonstrate the damage that can be done when politicians of any ilk become involved. Our indigenous policy is littered with episodes of failure. Party politics is poison around this issue.
As soon as past failure (or success – although God knows there’s been little of that) is sheeted home to one party or another, we’re on the blame/credit treadmill again.
Brough is correct when he compares blanket media coverage of the disappearance of one British child in Portugal with disregard of the daily tragedy of the lives of kids in our indigenous communities.
The four years I spent working in indigenous education in North West Qld still haunt me. I’ll never forget the desperation of the elders (almost always women) who could see their young people being lost and feeling impotent to change it. We sure as hell didn’t have the answers.
An old Aboriginal ringer once said to me –
“To be happy we need three things – story to tell, country to walk, and a mob to run with”.
By “story” he meant a reason to get up in the morning – a job. By “country” he meant somewhere to belong, and by “mob”, extended family.
You need all three, and in most cases the first one has been lost. He still had the cattle skills, but couldn’t get work so got on the grog. Sure, Land Rights was part of the problem, but the big properties were shedding staff at about this time anyway. It can’t all be blamed on the rights movement.
The most difficult issue is the apathy of most Australians. You often encounter people from NGO’s who set up booths in shopping centres selling sponsorship of deprived kids overseas. I once asked one of these people if it was possible to sponsor an Aboriginal child. She looked at me as if I’d stood in something smelly, and said “no”. When I asked why, she explained that the children sponsored had “no choice”. The inference was that indigenous kids did.
You may not agree, but this is where reconciliation comes in. If tomorrow’s Sorry Day means anything – it should mean that we start with a clean sheet to work on this problem.
To quote Douglas Stewart – “This is not sorrow, this is work – I build a cairn of words..”
Let’s build the cairn of words together, get over it and get on with the job………
I visited the social abscess of Halls Creek in the far north of Western Australia just before Christmas.
It beggars belief that a liquor store has a licence granted by the Western Australian government to sell alcohol to the dissolute remnants of the Aboriginal community in and around that town.
By 10am on the day of my visit to the wretched settlement its shabby main street was paved with drunken men and women; some so far gone they couldn’t sit upright against the bottle shop’s corrugated iron walls instead they repeatedly fell over to lie face down on the filthy urine stained concrete.
A few metres from the only service station in town where I stood re-fuelling my car several slightly less intoxicated men were sprawled out under a tree amusing themselves by exposing their genitals and crudely masturbating in front of every woman or girl who warily passed their shady spot.
A group of drunken youths in a nearby park, wild eyed and shouting obscenities, punched and kicked a lone grey haired stumbling old man who they screamed had offended one of more of the group until they knocked him down and they moved on looking for more sport.
The service station and bottle shop both resembled forts with armoured security shutters covering every opening.
This scene was played out in nearly every town from Tennant Creek and Katherine through Kununurra, Fitzroy Crossing, Halls Creek, Derby, Broome and southwards to Geraldton.
Rudd’s dim-witted ‘sorry statement’ won’t make any difference to the people up north – most are so debilitated by substance abuse they will probably never know his statement has been made before they die beggared and riddled with disease a few months or years hence.
Shame on Rudd for pandering to the corrupt ‘community leaders’ and other empty vessels whose desire for sorry is driven only by their greed – not one Aboriginal child, man or woman will be safer, better fed and educated or healthier as a result of this pathetic stunt.
Apart from the removal of all alcohol from the area I can’t begin to provide a solution to this terrible waste of lives – the problem is spread over such a wide area and affects such a large majority in every town.
However, ‘sorries’ and progressives group hugging in Canberra are obscenely feeble responses and such a grotesque waste of public money and time that if the Rudd government’s ‘intervention’ ends there it will truly have something to say sorry about to this generation of Aboriginals – if any survive.
There are no stolen ‘generations’ – to claim otherwise is a lie.
However today’s generation of Aboriginals in remote and regional Australia is having its life stolen from it by alcohol and the fools on the left.
“To be happy we need three things – story to tell, country to walk, and a mob to run with”.
Stoneage dreamtime. What his kids want is education – the rest follows. I am sympathetic to his cause but the world moves on and his kids have to cut it in the modern world.
He still had the cattle skills, but couldn’t get work so got on the grog
Read the Native Title Report by
href=”http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/IndigLRes/1997/4/2.html”>Anne McGrath. Good and bad on both sides but the when the ACTU forced equal wages on property owners/managers it was the Aborigines that suffered.
The Sorry business is being handled poorly. I would want a Task Force, an enlargement or follow up to Mal Brough’s plan, to move into the areas and clean it up in all the interpretations of the word. Swamp the problem – overkill ..gives kids with new medical, health and education degrees HECS payback for one or two years comittment. Call on the Grey Nomads (look at that huge source of experience) Call for volunteers to help – I would put my hand up, but lets not go back to the land rights, sit-down money, isolated outstations, no education, no discipline, access (hide the problems) by permit only, noble warrior bullshit of the Left.
Peter W,
I’ve been there myself and every`word you say is true and I fail to see why the Left don’t acknowledge the fact.
I have always argued Land Rights do nothing for the dispossessed. It is often argued that the key to western civilization was the Title Deed. Only when you actually own a piece of land can you value it, borrow on it or just enjoy it.
Property rights are the key. Give them their native title lands freehold. It’s also an argument against the white ‘invasion’. I’m not saying times weren’t rough, or that the land was uninhabited, but they didn’t really have the concept of ownership or property rights. Makes the whole issue a bit grey.
Worse than grey. Title deed in say Arnhem Land could be worth big money but could you borrow money to start a business or pay your kids school fees based on a block at Yeundemu?
There’s a lot of work to be done.
“the fools on the left”
OK Peter, you’ve got that off your chest – now what?
At least Kev has some suggestions. The diehards (apologising through gritted teeth) have none.
A task force is a sensible idea. The problem would be finding individuals prepared to live and work in the communities. One of the advantages of involving the army is that it knows how to set up required infrastructure from nothing. The army, however, is limited in its capacity to support social engineering – and this is what we’re talking about.
A task force set up on military lines with someone like Noel Pearson and perhaps Peter Cosgrove at the helm would be a start.
The head of such a task force should have wide-ranging emergency powers (perhaps driven by special legislation) allowing quarantining of the communities from media and politicians. All other jurisdictions (by this I mean state and federal bureaucracies) would need initially at least, to be cut free.
You’d start with Maslow’s heirarchy – shelter, food and safety, and once these were established and guaranteed, move to education and training. We’re talking about a process that would take at least two generations. I return to an old suggestion I put many topics back – conscription of young Australians to work on these communities for at least twelve months.
Despite the implied criticism of aboriginal spirituality “stoneage dreamtime” – there would need to be a single unifying element. Perhaps leadership – not ideology.
And grey nomads won’t cut it – they wouldn’t have the drive or energy.
So 17 whatever, how did it feel to be thrown off Bolt’s blog for abusive comments?
Nothing will succeed in the north whilst the left perpetuates both the political correctness which screams “racist” at every criticism of Aboriginal ‘culture’ and the system of permits required to enter Aboriginal lands which have conspired to produce an impenetrable black curtain, behind which the most abominable depravity is visited upon Aboriginal people.
An Aboriginal aristocracy uses the black curtain to strictly control who enters its part of Australia.
It’s they who sell the grog to their own people and wallow in the profits.
It’s they who fight the necessary removal of liquor licences claiming such removal is rascist.
It is time that Aboriginal people and the Australian public put the blame for Aboriginal destruction squarely at the feet of people of the left like Nugget Coombes and Sir Ronald Wilson, the do-gooders and bleeding hearts and the left-wing media.
Only then can the ever more rapid destruction of Aboriginal people be reversed.
There are no stolen generations, to claim otherwise is a lie.
“So 17 whatever, how did it feel to be thrown off Bolt’s blog for abusive comments?”
Feels great! – didn’t hurt a bit.
Incidentally, this is the text of my comment – thanks for giving me the opportunity to post it again:
“Andrew,
Your criticism of those who want to say the word reminds me of a year five lad I taught in South West Queensland years ago. No matter what the incident, minor or serious, he would never say “sorry”. Turned out that he was quite severely physically abused by his alcoholic dad.
Perhaps there’s something equally dark hidden in the your background. Your pseudo-journalism indicates a very angry personality.”
If this is “abusive”, I’ll walk backwards to Bourke. This from a “professional” with a public profile. Precious.
One of the defining characteristics of his kind of commentary is to silence any dissent, especially if it’s close to the mark.
“There are no stolen generations, to claim otherwise is a lie.”
Kids being stolen was only a part of it.
Have you read Bruce Elder’s “Blood on the Wattle”? Have you heard about the massacre of the Kalkadoons on 10th June, 1838? I worked with Kalkadoon and Mitakoodi people between 1992 and 1996, and the grief about their history was still palpable in the elders. If they weren’t killed outright, they died of european diseases, or developed skin infections from the lice-ridden clothes that the well-meaning missionaries supplied to cover their nakedness.
The fact that much of the intervention was well-intentioned (and occasionally “saved” children) makes no difference to the fact that children were forcibly removed. The coalition has had the honesty to support the apology, it’s regrettable that some of its supporters lack that courage and honesty.
It’s not going to solve the problem, but it’s a bloody good start.
Well I couldn’t help but watch Rudd’s awful obsequious speech and was dreadfully disappointed with the little man’s hyperbole.
Nelson’s dose of reality revealed the extent of Rudd’s puffery especially when he spoke of the dreadful truth of the depravity that is visited daily on Aboriginal women and children.
It’s to the eternal shame of the assembled crowds that many turned their backs on Nelson; their actions confirmed their refusal to face the reality of the miserable future tens of thousands of Aboriginals face with their lives being destroyed by alcohol and living in daily fear of rape and violence.
The ABC’s coverage was also filled with many Aboriginal representatives demanding compensation – a real nightmare for Rudd.
The chorus clamouring for a handout will rise in volume for years all asking for compensation based on the Tasmanian model of no proof required.
A footnote on the real importance of the day was provided by the commercial TV channels which put the whole sorry business into perspective by dropping the parliament feed immediately the speeches were over and returning to weight loss advertisements and makeovers for badly dressed men.
What was that about fish and chip wrappings…
Interesting take.
Like it or not, it will remain in the history books – no matter who writes them.
I also watched the speeches – not the panel, and was impressed by the dignity of the occasion. In the end, it took more guts to face the issue than to run away from it, as JWH did.
The back-turning was the only negative aspect, but understandable when you consider that Nelson got well and truly off the track when he tried to appease the naysayers in his shadow cabinet. The latter part of his speech – the part that generated the back-turning – was obviously written in committee. At least he didn’t loose the plot and bang the lectern.
What is happening now in many communities can be sheeted back to the intergenerational damage caused by separation. You don’t have to study anthropology to understand that. The impact is cumulative.
The atmospherics of the occasion reminded me of the 1987 Welcome Home march, in the sense that it was an expression of an emotion – a feeling – by one section of the community towards another. Both sought to right past wrongs using symbolism as the vehicle, and “Welcome Home” did this very well. History will record a similar result with this one. How often do you see a standing ovation on the floor of parliament?
And in the end it was honouring an election promise.
Well 17 whatever, what a trite error filled post typical of your work both here and on other sites.
The Kalkadoon did not have contact with whites until 1861 when Burke and Wills popped in on their way to their deaths.
The so called massacre occurred in 1884; the Kalkadoon had murdered a number of settlers and police and later charged, throwing spears, across open ground at a group of police armed with carbines.
The police had been pursuing the Kalkadoon in response to their latest murder and unsurprisingly killed most of them during the charge.
I’ve visited the area a number of times during the past 35 years and the dissolution of the Kalkadoon and Mitakoodi people is as marked as that of Aboriginal communities in the NT and WA.
It’s time these communities took responsibility for their alcoholism, wife bashing and child abuse and tried like their grand parents to walk alone without the left’s wicked benevolence.
As for Blood on the Wattle it’s a piece of fiction written by a ‘rock and roll’ music journalist.
The author fails to provide any credible evidence to support his allegations, in fact most of the documentary evidence available serves only to refute his claims.
“The coalition has had the honesty to support the apology, it’s regrettable that some of its supporters lack that courage and honesty”
I think you need to re-read Nelson’s speech – he might support the ‘sorryness’ in principle but accurately and un-waveringly points out the hypocrisy of Rudd’s shallow political point scoring waffle fest.
In the true spirit of Rudd’s meaningless sorry day it turns out he’s been forced to admit his own personal staff including his press secretary led the ‘back turning’ during Nelson’s speech and then orchestrated the slow hand clapping that followed.
Good effort lefties your true colours proudly on display.
And now your stupid group think ‘courage and honesty’ smear, well you might want to reflect on your casual use of such words lest you be mistaken for a fascist determined to subordinate all individuals to the wishes of the state – quite a popular endeavour amongst the left.
“In the end, it took more guts to face the issue than to run away from it, as JWH did”
You really are a revisionist 17 whatever – try refreshing your memory of Sir John’s motion of reconciliation thoughtfully provided below.
Compare and contrast Sir John’s mature and plain language with the nuanced piffle Rudd uttered today.
JOHN HOWARD (in the House today): …House to move a motion relating to reconciliation.
SPEAKER IN THE HOUSE: Is leave granted? Leave is granted. I thank the Leader of the Opposition. I call the Prime Minister.
JOHN HOWARD: I thank the House. Mr Speaker, I move that this House:
a.) reaffirms its wholehearted commitment to the cause of reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians as an important national priority for all Australians;
b.) recognising the achievements of the Australian nation, commits to work together to strengthen the bonds that unite us, to respect and appreciate our differences and to build a fair and prosperous future in which we can all share;
c.) reaffirms the central importance of practical measures leading to practical results that address the profound economic and social disadvantage which continues to be experienced by many indigenous Australians;
d.) recognises the importance of understanding the shared history of indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, and the need to acknowledge openly the wrongs and injustices of Australia’s past;
e.) acknowledges that the mistreatment of many indigenous Australians over a significant period represents the most blemished chapter in our national history;
f.) expresses its deep and sincere regret that indigenous Australians suffered injustices under the practices of past generations and for the hurt and trauma that many indigenous people continue to feel as a consequence of those practices; and
g.) believes that we, having achieved so much as a nation, can now move forward together for the benefit of all Australians.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.
JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: Mr Speaker, it will be no secret to the House or indeed to many Australians that over the past few days, indeed over the past few weeks, I and a number of my colleagues and others have been giving thought to the issues that are the subject of this resolution. It is an historic resolution. It’s a very important resolution because it goes to the issues of the spirit and the heart and the character of our country in a way that many of the issues we debate in this chamber, important though they are, do not.
As all members know, Mr Speaker, we are approaching that momentous event in Australia’s history when we will celebrate 100 years of federation, 100 years of the Australian nation. And that will be an occasion when all of us will want quite legitimately to focus on what this nation has achieved. We will quite legitimately in the Year 2001 celebrate with pride in an unqualified way the immensity and the scale of the Australian achievement. And that has been a great achievement. It’s been an achievement that has delivered to our country a reputation for achievement, for tolerance, for understanding, for compassion, for independence of spirit and an ability to work together to overcome adversity.
And I would imagine, Mr Speaker, that whatever our views are on political issues; whatever our ethnic or national origin might be, whether we practise this or that religion or whether we profess any religion at all, that we would want in the Year 2001 to focus overwhelmingly on those things that unite us as Australians and not those things that divide us and set us apart as Australians.
Mr Speaker, I have come to the view that an important element of that celebration of the unity of the Australian nation is undoubtedly achieving an effective and lasting reconciliation between indigenous Australians and other members of the Australian community. And I know that that is a desire that everybody in this chamber shares because in reality there is an extent to which the sense of the unit of the Australian nation is qualified and diminished so far as indigenous Australians are concerned unless, in their hearts and in their understanding, there is a proper basis of an achievement of reconciliation.
And it is in that context and against that background, Mr Speaker, the desire on the part of the government to make the maximum contribution towards achieving the conditions of reconciliation which will enable all of us, whatever our views are on constitutional reforms, whatever our views are on taxation, whatever our views are on foreign policy or health policy or all the other things that we debate so passionately in this chamber, so that all of us can pause in the year 2001 and reflect unqualifiedly and without any sense that one sector is diminished or restrained because of unfinished business, can celebrate the scale and the immensity of the Australian achievement.
And we need to do that as a people. We want to do that as a people. And I want all of the Australian people to feel an equal measure of pride and satisfaction in the Australian achievement. But I think we in this chamber must recognise that that can’t be done in quite that unqualified way by indigenous Australians without a sense of reconciliation.
In approaching this motion today, people are entitled to reflect on what I’ve said in the past. People are entitled to say that I said this on one occasion. Some will criticise me. Some will say that I’ve changed my position on some aspects of this. I don’t mind if they do. I don’t think to change your position on something really matters unless you are changing to a less worthy position.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.
PRIME MINISTER, JOHN HOWARD: And what I’d sought to do is to bring to an understanding and a comprehension of this issue, Mr Speaker, what I can to make as Prime Minister a practical contribution and a genuine contribution to the cause of reconciliation.
When my government was returned in the election last October, when I spoke on election night, I said I wanted to commit the government to achieve reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. And I believe that the resolution that I’m putting to the House today, Mr Speaker if carried, will make a very significant contribution towards that cause.
COMPERE: Well there it is, the Prime Minister, John Hoard, in the House of Representatives in Canberra putting forward a motion to the Parliament for deep and sincere regret for injustices suffered under the practices of past generations.
Peter
You’re correct about the date of the massacre, but you neglected to mention that according to a number of different accounts, over 200 were killed, including women and children. You also didn’t mention the involvement of Frederick Charles Urquhart, and Alexander Kennedy, two of the most vicious killers of Aboriginal people in our history. There is also no mention of the fact that bodies were left to rot until their bones could be seen bleached by the sun in strong contrast to the red soil colour in the area.
“The author fails to provide any credible evidence to support his allegations, in fact most of the documentary evidence available serves only to refute his claims.”
Perhaps – but there were a few others well-documented.
1824 Bathurst massacre: Following the killing of seven Europeans by Aboriginal people around Bathurst, New South Wales, martial law was declared and around 100 Aboriginal people killed.
1830 Fremantle, Western Australia,: The first official ‘punishment raid’ on Aboriginal people in Western Australia, led by Captain Irwin took place in May 1830. A detachment of soldiers led by Irwin attacked an Aboriginal encampment north of Fremantle in the belief that it contained men who had ‘broken into and plundered the house of a man called Paton’ and killed some poultry. Paton had called together a number of settlers who, armed with muskets, set after the Aborigines and came upon them not far from the home. ‘The tall savage who appeared the Chief showed unequivocal gestures of defiance and contempt’ and was accordingly shot. Irwin stated, “This daring and hostile conduct of the natives induced me to seize the opportunity to make them sensible to our superiority, by showing how severely we could retaliate their aggression.” In actions that followed over the next few days, more Aborigines were killed and wounded.
1833-34 Convincing Ground massacre (Gunditjmara): On the shore near Portland, Victoria was one of the largest recorded massacres in Victoria. Whalers and the local Kilcarer Gunditjmara people disputed rights to a beached whale carcass.
1834: Battle of Pinjarra, Western Australia: Official records state 14 Aboriginal people killed, but other accounts put the figure much higher.
1838 Myall Creek massacre – 10th June: 28 people killed at Myall Creek near Inverell, New South Wales. This was the first Aboriginal massacre for which European settlers were tried. Eleven men were charged with murder but acquitted. A new trial was held and the seven men charged with the murder of one Aboriginal child. They were found guilty and hanged.
1838 Waterloo Creek massacre: A Sydney mounted police detachment attacked an encampment of Kamilaroi people at a place called Waterloo Creek in remote bushland.
1838 Benalla (Benalta run – musk duck): Grantville Stapylton named the river ‘Broken’. In April of that year a party of some 18 men, in the employ of George Faithful and William Faithfull, were searching out new land to the south of Wangaratta. Then, in the vicinity of, or possibly on, the present townsite of Benalla, it is alleged that a large number of Aborigines attacked the party’s camp. At least one Koori and somewhere between eight and thirteen Europeans died in what became known as the Faithfull Massacre. Local reprisals lasted a number of years, resulting in the deaths of up to 100 Aborigines. The reason for the attack is unclear although some sources claim that the men took shots at local Aborigines and generally provoked them. It also seems they were camping on a hunting ground
1830s – 1840s Wiradjuri Wars: Clashes between European settlers and Wiradjuri were very violent, particularly around the Murrumbidgee. The loss of fishing grounds and significant sites and the killing of Aboriginal people was retaliated through attacks with spears on cattle and stockmen. In the 1850s there were still corroborees around Mudgee but there were fewer clashes. Known ceremony continued at the Murrumbidgee into the 1890s. European settlement had taken hold and the Aboriginal population was in temporary decline.
1840-1850 Gippsland massacres of the Gunai people in East Gippsland, Victoria, Australia in response to their resistance to European settlement on their land. The real death toll is unclear as few records exist or were made at the time. From available evidence (letters and diaries), it appears:
1840 – Nuntin- unknown number killed by Angus McMillan’s men
1840 – Boney Point – “Angus McMillan and his men took a heavy toll of Aboriginal lives”
1841 – Butchers Creek – 30-35 shot by Angus McMillan’s men
1841 – Maffra – unknown number shot by Angus McMillan’s men
1842 – Skull Creek – unknown number killed
1842 – Bruthen Creek – “hundreds killed”
1843 – Warrigal Creek – between 60 and 180 shot by Angus McMillan and his men
1844 – Maffra – unknown number killed
1846 – South Gippsland – 14 killed
1846 – Snowy River – 8 killed by Captain Dana and the Aboriginal Police
1846-47 – Central Gippsland – 50 or more shot by armed party hunting for a white woman supposedly held by Aborigines; no such woman was ever found.
1850 – East Gippsland – 15-20 killed
1850 – Murrindal – 16 poisoned
1841 Wonnerup Massacre: George Layman was speared by a Wardandi (from Wardan = Ocean) man, Gaywer, at Wonnerup House, Capel, Western Australia when he refused to release an Aboriginal woman held at the house. This led to the Wonnerup Massacre where white settlers rode abreast through the tuart forest killing over 250 people on their tribal land. The dead are reputed to be buried at Ludlow Forest, currently being mined for mineral sands by Cable Sands.
1841 Rufus River Massacre – August: 35 Maraura people killed in a two-day conflict with a number of police and volunteers from Adelaide after sheep and cattle were stolen and several months of violent tension.
1842 Deen Maar – Eumerella Wars took place over 20 years in the mid-1800s. The remains of people involved in the conflict are at Deen Maar.
1846 Blanket Bay, Cape Otway, Victoria – July: Rape and killing of numerous local Katabanut (king parrot) people during an expedition of Native Police dispatched by Captain Foster Fyans.
1864 Richmond River massacre – January: 100 people killed at Richmond River, New South Wales.
1865 The La Grange expedition was a search expedition carried out in the vicinity of La Grange Bay in the Kimberley region of Western Australia led by Maitland Brown that led to the death of up to 20 Aboriginal people. The expedition has been celebrated with the Explorers’ Monument in Fremantle, Western Australia.
1868 Flying Foam massacre, Dampier Archipelago, Western Australia. Following the killing of two police and two settlers by local Yaburara people, two parties of settlers from the Roebourne area, led by prominent pastoralists Alexander McRae and John Withnell, killed an unknown number of Yaburara. Estimates of the number of dead range from 20 to 150.
1874 Barrow Creek Massacre – February (NT): Mounted Constable Samuel Gason arrived at Barrow Creek and a police station was opened. Eight days later a group of Kaytetye men attacked the station, either in retaltiation for treatment of Kaytetye women, the closing off of their only water source, or both. Two white men were killed and one wounded. Samuel Gason mounted a large police hunt against the Kaytetye resulting in the killing of many Aboriginal men, women and children – some say up to 90. Skull Creek takes its name from the bleached bones found there long after.
1880s-90s Arnhem Land: Series of skirmishes and “wars” between Yolngu and whites. Several massacres at Florida Station. Richard Trudgen also writes of several massacres in this area, including an incident where Yolngu were fed poisoned horsemeat after they killed and ate some cattle (under their law, it was their land and they had an inalienable right to eat animals on their land). Many people died as a result of that incident. Trudgen also talks of a massacre ten years later after some Yolngu took a small amount of barbed wire from a huge roll to build fishing spears. Men, women and children were chased by mounted police and men from the Eastern and African Cold Storage Company and shot.
1884 Battle Mountain: 200 Kalkadoon people killed near Mount Isa, Queensland after a Chinese shepherd had been murdered.
1887 Halls Creek Western Australia. Mary Durack suggests there was a conspiracy of silence about the massacres of Djara, Konejandi and Walmadjari peoples about attacks on Aborigines by white gold-miners, Aboriginal reprisals and consequent massacres at this time. John Durack was speared, which led to a local massacre in the Kimberley.
1890 Speewah Massacre, Qld: Early settler, John Atherton, took revenge on the Djabugay by sending in native troopers to avenge the killing of a bullock.
1890-1920 Kimberley region – The Killing Times – East Kimberleys: About half of the Kimberley Aboriginal people massacred as a result of a number of reprisals for cattle spearing, and payback killings of European settler
Kimberley region – The Killing Times – 1890-1920: The massacres listed below have been depicted in modern Australian Aboriginal art from the Warmun/Turkey Creek community who were members of the tribes affected. Oral history of the massacres were passed down and artists such as the late Rover Thomas have depicted the massacres.
1906-7 Canning Stock Route: an unrecorded number of Aboriginal men and women were raped and massacred when Mardu people were captured and tortured to serve as ‘guides’ and reveal the sources of water in the area after being ‘run down’ by men on horseback, restrained by heavy chains 24 hours a day, and tied to trees at night. In retaliation for this treatment, plus the party’s interference with traditional wells, and the theft of cultural artefacts, Aborigines destroyed some of Canning’s wells, and stole from and occasionally killed white travellers. A Royal Commission in 1908, exonerated Canning, after an appearance by Kimberley Explorer and Lord Mayor of Perth, Alexander Forrest claimed that all explorers had acted in such a fashion.
1920s Mistake Creek: Seven Kija people were alleged to have been killed by men under the control of a Constable Rhatigan, at Mistake Creek, East Kimberley. The massacre is supposed to be in reprisal for allegedly killing Rhatigan’s cow, however the cow is claimed to have been found alive after the massacre had already taken place. Rhatigan was arrested for wilful murder, but the charges were dropped, for lack of evidence.
1926 Forrest River massacre in the East Kimberleys: in May 1926, Fred Hay, a pastoralist, was speared and killed by an Aboriginal man, Lumbia. A police patrol led by Constables James St Jack and Denis Regan left Wyndham on June 1, to hunt for the killer, and in the first week of July, Lumbia, the accused man, was brought into Wyndham. In the months that followed rumours circulated of a massacre by the police party. The Rev. Ernest Gribble of Forrest River Mission (later Oombulgurri) alleged that 30 people had been killed by the police party. A Royal Commission, conducted by G. T. Wood sent an evidence-gathering party and heard evidence regarding Gribble’s allegations. The Royal Commission found that 11 people had been massacred and the bodies burned. In May 1927, St Jack and Regan were charged with the murder of Boondung, one of the 11. However, at a preliminary hearing, Magistrate Kidson found there was insufficient evidence to proceed to trial.
1928 Coniston massacre: A WW1 veteran shot 32 Aborigines at Coniston in the Northern Territory after a white dingo trapper and station owner were attacked by Aborigines. A survivor of the massacre, Billy Stockman Tjapaltjarri, later became part of the first generation of Papunya painting men. Billy Stockman was saved by his mother who put him in a coolamon. A court of inquiry said the European action was ‘justified’.
1932-34 Caledon Bay crisis: In 1932, five Japanese poachers, two white men, and a policeman were killed by Yolngu people in retaliation for rapes. A “punitive expedition” from Darwin was proposed, just as had happened at the Coniston massacre four years earlier, but this was averted, and the matter was settled in the courts. This event is marked as a significant turning point in the history of the treatment of Aboriginal people.
It was in this country that one of very few examples of the genocidal extinction of a race happened in Tasmania with the death of the last trouwunna (Truganini) in 1876.
These were brutal times, and we shouldn’t judge using today’s more refined perspective. But to describe today’s activity as posturing is simply an exercise in denial and bitterness.
“And now your stupid group think ‘courage and honesty’ smear, well you might want to reflect on your casual use of such words lest you be mistaken for a fascist determined to subordinate all individuals to the wishes of the state – quite a popular endeavour amongst the left.”
I do not belong to any group. My words are not used casually. I know that it takes courage to apologise. I don’t give a stuff what I’m mistaken for – I call it as I see it. “Left” and “right” has no relevance in this discourse.
As I recall, this apology was an election promise, and the current government has a clear mandate for it. Beats me how you can mistake it for fascism.
“you neglected to mention that according to a number of different accounts, over 200 were killed”
It wasn’t neglect it was a rejection of hearsay and myth.
“but there were a few others well-documented”
Documented, on Wikipedia – you jest…
The writers (inventors) of such massacre lists are as loose with the truth as comrade Kevvy.
As for the pathetic divisive ‘sorryness’ being an election promise, I don’t give a rat’s arse.
More than 47% of Australian voters did not given Rudd a mandate to display sorryness on their behalf.
In fact if a mere 6000 votes had been cast differently in several marginal seats Sir John would still be PM and Rudd would be back on the back benches by now – Rudd rules on a wafer thin margin.
And remember your dear leader, Mr Commitment, on 3AW just prior to the election:
3AW HOST: Will you use the word “sorry”?
KEVIN RUDD: Well, the substance of it will be sorry, apology, but frankly if you ask me for the precise form of language.
3AW HOST: No, I’m asking for that one word, because this is where the Prime Minister has been targeted. Will you use the word “sorry”?
KEVIN RUDD: Yeah, I said in the debate against the Prime Minister at the beginning of the campaign that we’re elected to form the next government of Australia, I will as Prime Minister of the country of course express an apology, and I make no bones with that.
3AW HOST: But the Prime Minister has already done that. Will you say sorry?
KEVIN RUDD: Well apology is sorry, it’s the same thing.
Pathetic dissembling by a shallow little man without a single personal conviction about Aboriginals or anything else – remember the ‘false dawn’ scandal – Rudd had absolutely no problem with debasing ANZAC Day for what he perceived to be political advantage.
Denis Jensen revealed today just how hollow Rudd’s political stunt was yesterday.
“Now, there is something very interesting with the PM’s record on this (Aboriginal welfare).
He was the mandarin (appropriate term there, I think), who was in charge of the bureaucracy during the term of the Goss Labor government.
What policies came out of that period to reduce the plight of the Aboriginal people?
Well, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he has seen the light subsequent to becoming the Member for Griffith and coming to this place.
So, I searched Parlinfo, for Rudd’s speeches in Hansard.
For the search term “aboriginal” I got 2 hits – one about a local primary school and the other his speech in response to Howard’s aboriginal initiative last year, in which he supports Howard.
For “aboriginals” – 0 hits. For “ATSIC” – 0 hits. For “native welfare” – 0 hits.
So much for his genuine concern on the plight of the Aboriginal people of Australia.
It would seem that in all his time in this place, it is only the past few months that he has discovered the plight of the Aboriginal people. ”
Rudd’s stunt was designed purely as an exercise in self aggrandisement which dishonoured the thousands of Australians who have worked to better the lot of Aboriginal Australians often at great personal and financial cost to themselves.
Your list of alleged unlawful killings was compiled by the Ward Churchills of Australia and uploaded to Wikipedia; historians whose sole motivation is to manufacture a history that suits their leftish ideology and hence loathing of Australian society.
For example Windschuttle revealed that amongst many similar fabrications Professor Lyndall Ryan formerly of the University of Newcastle, New South Wales, and now of the University of Tasmania. In her The Aboriginal Tasmanians (p. 77) claimed that:
By 1808 conflict between Aborigines and Europeans over kangaroos had so intensified that twenty Europeans and a hundred Aborigines probably lost their lives.
However, the references cited by Ryan simply do not show this. She cited a contemporary diary, which, on examination, mentioned only the killing of four Aborigines, two white men, and a dog.
So four became a hundred… similarly eight can become two hundred.
The exaggeration of Aboriginal casualties is a favourite tactic of the left and has been comprehensively discredited as has the ludicrous contention that a “genocidal extinction of a race happened in Tasmania”.
Your reference to ‘courage and honesty’ is a smear – your comment implies that anyone with a dissenting view has no courage or honesty.
As I wrote earlier those who seek to restrict the opportunity for dissent can be mistaken for fascists, after all, you infer that because I hold the ALP’s sorryness in contempt and refute the myth of the stolen generations I lack courage or honesty.
Can’t win the argument using facts so straight to the smear.
To clarify the phrase ‘group think’ for you I’ll turn to Monty Python:
“Rudd: You’re all individuals!
17 et al (in unison): Yes! We’re all individuals!
Rudd: You’re all different!
17 et al (in unison): Yes, we are all different!
PeterW: I’m not…
17 et al: Shhh! You splitter… (you lack courage and honesty)”
In closing:
“I call it as I see it. “Left” and “right” has no relevance in this discourse.”
LOL, ROFLMAO…
Peter
“a rejection of hearsay and myth”
We can argue over primary sources until the cows come home. The fact of the matter is that the original inhabitants of this country were dispossessed of their way of life (however brutish) by a technologically superior group. Whatever judgment of these events is made from the comfort of the twenty first century does not change or diminish that fact. A race of people disappeared in Tasmania. To deny that is a denial of history – not myth.
My ancestors came to this country as a result of British policy in Ireland. I assume that in your view this makes me biased against the British. We either live with and accept our history – all of it – or we’re doomed to repeat it.
I find this “blame the victim” mentality particularly offensive, as I put up with it for years after returning from Vietnam. I was verbally slagged by a Liberal party staffer in 1975 when he discovered I was a Vietnam veteran, who wasn’t going to vote for his candidate. He seemed to believe that I owed him a vote somehow because “all Vietnam Veterans vote Liberal”. Even if I had considered it, this sense of entitlement would have dismissed the notion very quickly.
This bizarre version of PC continues as revealed by the behaviour yesterday of diehards like Wilson Tuckey. He has the use of the smear down to a fine art. Conservatives constantly criticise liberals on the basis that their view of the world is emotional rather than rational. The angry and bitter response from the diehards to yesterday’s events gives the lie to that contention.
“As for the pathetic divisive ’sorryness’ being an election promise, I don’t give a rat’s arse.”
You can’t on the one hand say you have no regard for election promises, and on the other accuse me of Fascism. I’d rather have a Prime Minister that puts policies out, has them tested at election time, and then keeps his promises, than his predecessor who introduced an ideology-driven policy like Workchoices without prior reference to the electorate, and set out to rationalise it after the event.
“your dear leader”
I don’t live in Rudd’s electorate, and I didn’t vote for him. He is the democratically elected leader of the party that has the majority on the treasury benches, not a tin-pot North Asian despot. But I guess that’s not a smear because it comes from someone on the “right” side of the debate.
I can’t see the relevance of trawling through Hansard. It has the faintly American flavour of checking the voting record in the house and using it to belt a candidate around the ears after the event. It also gives the commentators a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’ve done some research.
“Rudd had absolutely no problem with debasing ANZAC Day for what he perceived to be political advantage.”
If you’re talking about the “Sunrise” issue – you’ve got to be kidding. This was an example of a politician copping colateral damage in a media stoush. JWH and his crew wrote the book on debasing military service. The coalition conscripted me to fight in Vietnam in 1970, disowned my service when I returned, and then had the hide to try to present me with a medal in 2003, timed neatly to coincide with an effort to beat up public sympathy for our commitment.
Ian MacFarlane still has it in his office drawer.
“…the original inhabitants of this country were dispossessed of their way of life (however brutish) by a technologically superior group..
Which wave was disposed by the British – 2nd, 3rd, 4th?
Even your Irish forebears have got over most of their successive waves of colonisation and invasion.
The Mesolithic settlers who arrived around 8000 BC were assimilated by subsequent waves of Neolithic farmers.
The Neolithic farmers that survived dramatic climate change between 4000BC and 2000BC were swamped by Celts around 500BC – do they deserve an apology from the houses of the Oireachtas?
The Romans it must be admitted didn’t really make much of an impression, however the most insidious ‘invasion’ starting with St Patrick and his followers has prevailed despite the attention of the Vikings and Normans although Brian Boru and his cohorts caused just as much suffering amongst the tribes’ as any previous invader.
Makes the brief involvement of the English in Ireland look quite benevolent really.
Still as you brought it up I guess you feel strongly enough about it to petition the houses of the Oireachtas and demand an apology from the Neoliths, Celts, Romans, Vikings, Normans and of course the English – ‘the bloody English’ and their ‘butcher’s apron’.
“…after returning from Vietnam…”
Time you stopped using your service in Vietnam as a crutch.
You are not the only person to have served in SE Asia either as a conscript or a volunteer.
We’ve all heard (read) you repeat the “I was verbally slagged by a Liberal party staffer…” over and over again – it’s not convincing and doesn’t engender any sympathy from me, get over it or as some would say “suck it up”.
“I’d rather have a Prime Minister that puts policies out, has them tested at election time, and then keeps his promises…”
Rudd had no policy for Aboriginal Australians before the election and still doesn’t.
Prove me wrong – show me the policy documents – you know the ones that include housing, health care, education and policing – oh that’s right the policy is colloquially known as the ‘Intervention’.
A policy despised by you of the left as it exposes to the world the staggering shortcomings of 40 years of benevolent indifference visited by the left and hand wringing self described ‘progressives’ upon Aboriginal communities.
Rudd is not only policy deficient in Aboriginal affairs, witness his next PR stunt; the 1000 ‘intellectuals’ gab fest – a source of ridicule by even the most sympathetic stand up comics for the rest of the year.
“ I don’t live in Rudd’s electorate, and I didn’t vote for him…”
That’s called ‘dissembling’ – it’s pathetic, you burned and quivered with desire at the thought of a Rudd victory – however I can understand your disappointment after all we of the right warned you Rudd was all piss and wind.
“I can’t see the relevance of trawling through Hansard…”
WTF – is your blood pressure up and a red mist clouding your cognitive abilities?
It’s a matter of record Rudd has never shown any interest in Aboriginals until he dreamt up the great wedge policy of sorryness – he admitted he wrote it in biro last Sunday – “all my own work governor” he claimed on Lateline.
“I always write my speeches in biro – I only tap out emails…”
I’m older that your great leader and I learnt to use a word processor over 20 years ago – even my 90 year old father composes his correspondence using a computer.
“It has the faintly American flavour…”
As you’re a lefty I’m not surprised you threw in a gratuitous anti American jibe – you just can’t help it.
“The coalition conscripted me to fight in Vietnam in 1970, disowned my service when I returned, and then had the hide to try to present me with a medal in 2003, timed neatly to coincide with an effort to beat up public sympathy for our commitment.”
Aw fuck, get me a tissue…
“Ian MacFarlane still has it in his office drawer….”
Really, I’ll ask him – if he has I’ll suggest he return it to Honours and Awards so it can be recast and issued to someone who wants it.
You’re floundering like a baby seal on the first day of the hunt 17 whatever, time you sipped a Horlicks and a had a lay down.
Peter
I’ll keep it brief. Last time I had this much difficulty explaining a simple concept was with a year three class in 1968. They caught on more quickly……
The current government was elected last November. Before the election, the leader of the opposition (Kevin Rudd) made it clear that one of the first actions he would take would be a formal apology to the stolen generation.
As promised, he did this during the week.
The event was well-orchestrated, much in the same way as APEC. This time The Chaser team had the sense to keep out of it.
Many Conservative commentators had attacks of apoplexy.
“you burned and quivered with desire”
Give me a break, I’m too old for that – although my wife enjoyed the comment.
You’ve been reading too much Violette Leduc. Stop it, or you’ll go blind.
“The current government was elected last November. Before the election, the leader of the opposition (Kevin Rudd) made it clear that one of the first actions he would take would be a formal apology to the stolen generation.”
And?
That makes it a good idea?
Well I don’t share his sentiments – I’m not sorry – I can’t be sorry for something which did not occur.
There are no stolen generations – they are a myth, Rudd has opened a reeking can of worms that will consume the Aboriginal industry, the courts and governments for years.
Court actions being planned today in Victoria will suck up millions of dollars better spent on services desperately needed along the Murray and all because of an ill considered stunt by biro man.
In the meantime the poor beggared, beaten, raped and dissolute Aboriginals far from the court room action in Sydney and Melbourne will continue to exist in squalor and suffer and die from diseases eradicated years ago in the rest of Australia.
I’ve not read any of Leduc’s work and I find it instructive you are so familiar with literature that glorifies adolescent lesbian love.
How was the Horlicks?
What is happening now in many communities can be sheeted back to the intergenerational damage caused by separation. You don’t have to study anthropology to understand that. The impact is cumulative.
Then I’m glad I never studied anthropology because if I had, I may well have been lead up the same path as you. Standard formula has applied…lock them up in a commerce and work free area, make it difficult for ordinary white Australians to witness the chaos and subsequently ask questions and don’t pursue education or rule of law. Provide money for grog and drugs and watch it all fall down.
I call it as I see it. “Left” and “right” has no relevance in this discourse.
The Left always seem to deny the Left and Right aspects of an argument whilst arguing it from a Left perspective.
Here’s some surprise for you.
#1. Most people in Australia do not agree that the apology will make any difference despite what the media tell you.
#2. This debate has always been left vs right. The more pragmatic right want remedial action while the Left are still talking about reinstating the permit system and little talk of hard love.
Your litany of frontier battles and slaughter is interesting but tainted by some historians.
From a post I made in 2002 (Full text in archives: 2002 Evidence points to frontier violence
Tainted!
There is no question that natives were killed in the early days of settlement but that’s a sign of the times. If I was trying to start a Cattle empire in the 1800s and some bloke chucked a spear at me I would drop him and his mates until they recognized the power of the sword. That is one of the factors that helped us to become what we are. Let’s not deny our history of great men who fought flood, famine and the odd spear thrower. Some blacks were murdered and some whites hung for it. Maybe not enough but that was the 1800s…OK the early 1900s as well.
Stone age dreaming. There is, in my opinion, little to recommend about stone age anything. I recall on one trip to the Cape with a school group of teachers and students we stopped and looked at the cave paintings at Split Rock. Teachers were moved to tears though kids were a little more cynical. I couldn’t help but think that about the time when the local guy had blown ochre through a reed to leave a template of his hand on the rock Leonarda da Vinci was battling through the Mona Lisa.
Sure, it’s interesting in a caveman sort of way but their culture is holding them back. A border at Nudgee College is proud of the fact that English is his third language which is a pity because if he had concentrated more on English he might have gained entry to uni and thus potentially help his people. His education was also held back by the fact that every time an elder died in Arnhem Land he had to vacate school for two weeks to go to there and mourn. Curricula at schools should include no more than, say two periods, but preferably one period of Aborigine culture balanced with equal periods on our culture. It is in our world the children have to make it. Let their parents sober up and tell them about their culture. I’m aware of my tribal history of British military and Irish farmers but you don’t see me rehearsing for the changing of the guard.
I do however sometimes drink Guinness and sing Irish songs
In the ALP’s first test they fell at the starting blocks by reinstating the permit system. Let’s be positive and hope Jenny Macklin stays the course with the program overall.
Re Brendan Nelson being offered a part in the War Committee. I’m reminded of LBJ when he remarked it was better having your enemies inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in. A Texas homily that come to mind when I read the article.
Peter
“That makes it a good idea?”
The majority of electors of Australia obviously thought so. It’s shame they didn’t listen to those who believe that they have an entitlement to rule. It’s called democracy.
“There are no stolen generations – they are a myth”.
The fact remains that children were removed as public policy. I worked with a group of aboriginal people in the North-Western region in my capacity as chair of NATSIEP between 1992 and 1996. These were down-to-earth honest people (mostly elderly women) widely respected in their communities. They had no time for bullshit and were fighting a losing battle trying to improve the lot of indigenous kids in Dajarra, Camooweal, Urandangi, Boulia, Bedourie and Birdsville. Some of their ancestors had been “stolen”, although they never used the term in my presence.
There was no trace of bitterness or rancour in their dealings with me, although there were times when my ignorance and impatience could have caused offence. This dignity and grace was not demonstrated by some of the back-turners on Wednesday, but the bitter reaction from some members of the coalition, (and from some writing here) beggars belief.
“I’ve not read any of Leduc’s work”
I can recommend it. I came across her work when I studied French Lit at U of Q in 1972. Her books provide a great example of lyrical intensity. I suppose in your mind the fact that I’m currently reading David Marr’s biography of Patrick White makes both my politics and sexuality suspect.
But then you wouldn’t be attempting a smear, Peter, would you?
Kev
“Then I’m glad I never studied anthropology because if I had, I may well have been lead up the same path as you.
I’ve never studied anthropology either, but my observations as a teacher have taught me that if the family unit is broken, for whatever reason, the dysfunctional result of this becomes intergenerational unless strong intervention occurs. It’s a bit like compound interest. The effect increases with each generation.
“lock them up in a commerce and work free area”
The permit system can be used as an excuse either way. If sufficient resources and energy were put into a task force, this permit issue would become irrelevant.
The answer is hard work starting with security, housing and schooling. Sure commerce and work should help – but these basics come first.
This issue has become so much of a political football, that both the “right” and the “left” approach it from the paradigm of ideology in the first instance. The “right” believe that the market will solve the problem – the “left” look to self-determination. There is no future in either and the energy should be put into the remedy, not the political dispute. It’s a bit like a group of firemen arguing about what type of extinguisher to use whilst the house burns down.
I like your suggestion of a task force, but there is no way forward without reconciliation.
The Texan metaphor is apt, but in terms of Brendan Nelson, “All hat and no cattle” is also appropriate. He lacks the genuine support of his party on this issue and lacks influence as a result.
I’d support any suggestion that Mal Brough continue to be involved. He has the guts and passion to see it through.
“The majority of electors of Australia obviously thought so…”
So you claim all the 6,545,749 Australians whose primary vote or preference elected the Rudd regime are filled with sorryness?
What utter twaddle – it’s as ridiculous as me claiming the 5,874,104 who voted for the coalition are all in disagreement with Rudd’s biro inspired stunt.
But if we use your simplistic understanding of democracy then the majority of voters in the previous 4 elections all favoured our involvement in Iraq, the incarceration of so called asylum seekers, not saying sorry, agreed Hicks should have rotted in Cuba for the rest of his miserable life and sundry other issues you’ve railed against for the past decade.
It’s a shame you didn’t listen to the majority and hit the streets in support of Sir John’s Iraq policy and to burn Hicks in effigy.
Don’t have us believe you’re a ‘splitter’ (no honesty or courage).
“…in my capacity as chair of NATSIEP”
“A major purpose of the NATSIEP was to ‘achieve broad equity between Aboriginal people and other Australians in access, participation and outcomes in all forms of education.”
You must be disappointed that even though NATSIEP ran for 12 or more years not one of its 21 goals was achieved, especially in the most needy communities – just one more gab fest – still Rudd said sorry so alls well.
The sick will be healed, the ignorant informed, the addicted freed and the children can rest easily at night because Rudd’s ‘biroed’ a sorry note.
Bet you used lots of butcher’s paper developing your ‘vision’ and ‘goals’.
So you admit that without coercion you’re fouling your mind with Marr’s fumbling prose – nuff said really.
17 whatever you’ve demonstrated a special ability to craft smears, I’ll let your own words stand as testament to that skill.
“The “right” believe that the market will solve the problem…”
Rubbish – the right wants pragmatic real solutions to the vile situation the Aboriginals have been reduced to by the left during the past 40 years.
No more progressive group hugs or media stunts.
Get the houses, clinics and schools built, lock up the sexual predators, apply the law equally and no longer excuse paedophilia as a ‘tribal initiation, get rid of the permits for ever, get more Aboriginals into meaningful work including the police, healthcare, education and ADF, rescind all liquor licences in towns like Halls Creek, Derby, Victoria River and Katherine and get rid of marijuana, kava and all the other community destroying substances.
Not piecemeal – not one community at a time, no endless consultation with ‘community leaders’ many of whom are part of the problem and cannot be included in the solution, great swathes of the country must dealt with concurrently to prevent a ‘whack a mole’ effect with the arseholes just moving up the highway to prey on the next camp.
It’ll cost, but not as much as the sorry court cases and reparations being sought will as they will delay and obfuscate the real job that needs to be done and done now.
Oh – there are no stolen generations – they are a myth.
“But then you wouldn’t be attempting a smear, Peter, would you?”-pseudo-intellectual 1735099
Like many that came before, you probably haven’t a clue on the irony of this complaint.
From the start you’ve implied racism and hatred in others on this blog.
But I know from experience pointing this out is a waste of time.
I will be amused by your increasingly condescending projections.
Peter
“Oh – there are no stolen generations – they are a myth.
As you are not doubt aware, denial is one of the stages of grief. As is anger. Both are demonstrated in your comments.
“Sir John” as you call him is no longer calling the shots. There is a new dispensation. Apart from a few diehards, the actions of the new government have been applauded by media, international commentators and many on the “right”.
See – http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23221698-2,00.html
On the whole, I agree with your comments about the way ahead. This action was open to “Sir John” during the eleven years of his government. The fact that it took bad polls and Mal Brough (who has a genuine passion on this issue) to shift him reveals Howard’s real attitude to the issue.
If nothing else, the apology to the stolen generation has for a time at least, shaken Australian complacency about the conditions in many of the communities. I doubt that many of them will act, but they may be disposed to support action.
Rudd has many faults – he is primarily a policy wonk, but he understands the power of generosity and hope and attempts to wield it. Howard was locked into using hate and fear.
Can I suggest you read “What’s Left” – Clive Hamilton (4 Classic Quarterly Essays on Australian Politics). It fairly succinctly describes the Quantum shift in progressive thought that Rudd is attempting to harness.
BTW – “So you admit that without coercion you’re fouling your mind with Marr’s fumbling prose – nuff said really.”
No, I’ve found White a very heavy read. Reading about him is easier on the aging grey matter.
“Like many that came before….”
Glad I’m in good company.
“I will be amused by your increasingly condescending projections”
I’m pleased you find my comments entertaining. I’ll accept your invitation to continue.
“As you are not doubt aware, denial is one of the stages of grief. As is anger. Both are demonstrated in your comments.”
Ha ha ha ha – you really are struggling here 17 whatever.
I nearly spat my non fair trade coffee over my US imperialist manufactured keyboard with laughter when that little gem popped up.”
But I realise it’s pity you deserve not scorn.
“Can I suggest you read “What’s Left” – Clive Hamilton (4 Classic Quarterly Essays on Australian Politics). It fairly succinctly describes the Quantum shift in progressive thought that Rudd is attempting to harness. ”
Ah – academia, not an original thought amongst you.
Perhaps you’d have a more realistic view of the world if you didn’t rely so heavily on others like the self loathing Hamilton to interpret what you see for you.
You’ve become predictable and therefore boring 17 – you use the same waffle to advance every one of your ’causes’.
There are no stolen generations – they are a myth.
Peter Whatever
“There are no stolen generations – they are a myth”
Yep, just like Ned Kelly, ANZAC, and mateship. Like it or not the stolen generation and the apology has become part of our history. Was it Freddie Trueman who said “Nay, lad, you’ll read it in the papers tomorrow” when a batsman denied the umpire’s decision?
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. The people with the greatest stake in it (those victims of your alleged “myth”) do, and therin lies its rationale.
Glen Milne put it fairly succinctly in today’s Sunday Mail –
“While Kevin Rudd and Brendan Nelson were enhanced both as politicians and as human beings by their contributions, John Winston Howard, humbug to the last on this issue, refused an invitation to attend the event……If the former prime minister really had the interests of the Coalition at heart, he would have attended the Parliament along with Gough Whitlam, Malcolm Fraser, Bob Hawke and Paul Keating.
Yes, it might have been uncomfortable. But there was a way through and it was this: Rudd went to the election promising an apology, and he won.
On that basis, Howard should simply have issued a statement saying that while his record on this issue was well known, he now accepted it was the democratic will of the Australian people that such an apology should proceed.
And that he now wanted to join with the rest of the country’s political leadership by putting the divisive debate behind us and moving forward. In other words, an act of grace.”
Howard’s quibbling about the words “regret” and “sorry” is stark evidence of his real position, which is “I’ll stay what I please – not what these people need to hear.” That is not an apology. He put hubris before healing – mean-spirited to the end.
This “act of grace” was obviously beyond JWH. “Sir” John – I don’t think so.
Yeah, right. It would have been really smart of Howard to attend. It would allow for the final public memories of John Howard to be of people screaming abuse and turning their backs on him. That’s the only reason they wanted him there.
And to stand with Whitlam, Frazer, Hawke and Keating – no way! Milne spent most of Howard’s tenure trying to destabalize his Prime Ministership. Should I take any notice of another put down of Howard – not likely
The media and the left are sold – but the rest of us are not hanging our hats on the apology but waiting for some action.
Try and raise the question at a bar in Chinchilla etc.
My worry is that most of what Howard and Brough started is so against the mantra of the left that Rudd and Macklin will be under pressure to scrap it and go back to the bad old days ignoring the problem.
I hope not and I’ll reserve my opinion but they have already gone back to the permit system.
Not good.
“Was it Freddie Trueman who said… ”
Again another academic post devoid of any originality – why is it people like you 17 are incapable of expressing yourselves without resorting to “as so and so said”.
Can’t you craft your own words and express yourself well enough without another’s words to give you credibility in the eyes of your ilk.
It’s pitiful – try washing your face in a cold basin of water and walking the streets without a tomb or two written by some empty leftist shill.
“Rudd went to the election promising an apology, and he won.”
That you immaturely believe that as Rudd narrowly won the election all of his policies were endorsed by the majority of the electorate is at best ignorant at worst (the version I favour) a deliberate lie.
You claim to be educated, a ‘man of the world’ who was insulted by a coalition party staffer and well, just ignored.
You served in Vietnam and subsequently ‘was learned better at university’ (including French literature) and have sat with Aboriginal women – as my daughter often says – “tell some one who gives a shit about you and your sad little life”.
You still lack original thought and have to live your life according to the tenets of your leftist ideology – I have nothing but pity for you and hope one day you’ll lift the scales from your eyes and see the world as it is.
You still haven’t managed to challenge my central argument; there are no stolen generations – they are a myth.
Tonight I sit in my home eating roast pig, drinking fine red wine and listening to rousing piano music as my family and I celebrate Bacchus whose day of celebration has been usurped by the providores of chocolate, heart shaped balloons and garish greeting cards.
We are comfortable in the knowledge there are no stolen generations and that we have nothing to apologise for.
You 17 can live in the temporary glow your dear leader has occasioned you and when the shine wears off and the dissolute, diseased and destroyed generation that sleeps slumped against a stained wall tonight wake it’s you and your poor deluded kind they will direct their anger towards.
There are no stolen generations until now – you and your leader will be responsible.
Kev
“Try and raise the question at a bar in Chinchilla etc.”
Would Cunnamulla do? I’ll be there this week. Leaving 6am. I’ll let you know how I got on when I get back on the weekend.
Incidentally – this comment on one of my other blogs –
http://jellybeanblog.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=191457#currentPostComments
“As an aboriginal it is heart warming 2 really know that some white people really do mean SORRY! The first steps have been put in motion towards reconciliation. We are hopefully gonna move towards a better Australia. My uncle was in the SAS in the VIETNAM war, and sorry 2 say that he did not come back. I’d like 2 hope he did not die over there 4 a country full of arrogant, stuck-up, racists!!”
Race baiters feed resentment. They claim a high morel ground but some it’s projection of bigotry for others it’s a political token.
The end result makes them as repugnant as racist.
“Incidentally – this comment on one of my other blogs”-pseudo-intellectual 1735099
Link Troll
Kev
As promised, I raised the question of the apology during my trip west this week. These are a sample of the responses, although in truth, most of those I discussed it with had, from their point of view, more important things to consider, including the rain, the state of the roads after the rain, and when they were going to be able to get back into paddocks turned into bogs by the rain –
From an Indigenous Education Worker in Cunnamulla – “About bloody time”. (This person was wearing a “Your rights at Work” T-Shirt, so her affiliations were pretty obvious).
From the principal of a small school between Chinchilla and Surat – “We would have liked to celebrate it more, but didn’t get organised in time”.
From a rural rep I had a beer with in a bar in Roma – “it’s a bit of a non-issue”.
So life goes on in the bush.
On the topic, I was talking to a Cunnamulla teacher who works with indigenous kids who have been before the courts. She was bemoaning the fact that they serve their sentences in detention centres in Brisbane, and come back home out of the experience a whole lot more hardened and streetwise than when they went in. She would like to set up a work centre, probably property-based, where they could work off their sentences and learn some rural skills at the same time. To my way of thinking, this is one example of the kind of intervention that might work.
It has buggerall to do with left-right politics, and “one size fits all” solutions. There is a need for a range of programmes tailored to local needs, employing high-quality people who are fair dinkum.