Soldiers coached for stress claims
THE filing of civil claims for shell shock by 1200 of the estimated 16,000 veterans of the East Timor peacekeeping operation has rung alarm bells in defence circles.
And so it should.
The high incidence of compensation claims for post-traumatic stress disorder from the East Timor operation has been attacked as disproportionate, particularly when compared with the stresses under which troops operate in the far more dangerous Iraqi and Afghan theatres.
Someone needs to say it so it may as well be me. Undoubtedly there were bad days in Timor and I’ve been told of some, but the fact remains it was mostly a low level clash. Unkind of me to say this but yesterday when talking to my old forward scout I suggested that in one year 7RAR would have fired more rounds accidentally (Unauthourised discharges) in Vietnam than 5/7RAR fired in anger in Timor and lets not even mention the 1st and 2nd/7th battalions from WW1 and 2.
I am on the side of the soldier, particularly the modern soldier, and I’m the last person to denigrate a man’s service but I am the first one to question spurious claims to get on the PTSD bandwagon.
Vietnam veterans opened the gates on PTSD and the people who were in the forefront of the compensation claims rush were people least traumatised or least likely to be traumatised. Infantry, and other combat arms, may well be up the front in battle but are definitely down the back at parades and compensation claims. Cooks, bottle washers and crewman of a certain large Grey Funnel Line ship beat us hands down. Infantryman tired of hearing about trauma occassioned by hearing hand grenades exploding in the water to prevent VC divers mining a 22,000 ton metal bunker in Vung Tau harbour and eventually sort help.
For some too late.
I’m also a little confused about the ‘immediate’ effect of PTSD. I may have been traumatised when I returned from Vietnam but it took me 20 odd years to recognise or admit to the fact. Admittedly Vietnam Veteran’s Counselling services forced the issue and it is now a recognised condition whereas our forefathers, and initially Vietnam vets, suffered an unknown disability.
It can now be diagnosed quicker but on demob? – I’m not convinced and research on the subject suggests time after the event is also a part of the definition. I’ve read that continual adrenalin overload eventually impacts on the brain and causes an chemical inbalance. The word ‘eventual’ has been the common denominator in my experience but then it does effect everyone differently and maybe I’m just being infantry-hard arsed about the matter.
I’m of the opinion that there needs to be a benchmark. Whatever word-clever, life-experience-deficient lawyers might argue, if the soldier wasn’t in danger in his particular war; if he never went outside the wire; if he never experienced near death or life threatening circumstances; if he was never rocketed, bombed or shot at or never shot back; if he never did long patrols in enemy held territory or never had to deal with friend or foe body parts then what the hell has he got to be traumatised about?
Six months without a home meal or a cuddle at night doesn’t, or shouldn’t, meet the benchmark.
If there are any young readers left after this tirade, indeed if there ever were, then attack me in comments but get your facts right – been there…still there.
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Big call Kev,
It is very difficult to get claims passed DVA now.
My advice to anyone who feels that they have a legitimate
claim on DVA is to submit an application.
So I would encourage the Timor vets to submit an application
if they feel they have some illness or disability as a result of their service.
DVA have very exact and tough standards now.
It is a specialist medical pratitioner that reports on the
validity or otherwise of an illness or disability claim – not a lawyer.
We don’t want the controls to be any tighter.
I would rather see a few bogus claims get up
rather than one legitimate claim knocked back.
Whilst I tend to agree with what you have written Kev
I still believe we must support the soldier, and let the
system, set up by the medical specialists, decide.
I mostly agree with your comment except the lawyers are involved not just specialist medical practitioners. Private law firms are taking on the cases and it is they who are gilding the lilly.
That is how it goes with “benefits”. Nobody wants to miss out even if they know they might not really be deserving; as long as it is legal. The lawyers will, indeed, ‘gild the lily’ for these homesick cooks, but the real gold will end up in their pockets.
I have nothing but admiration for those who have served, however I have a relative who served active duty in Vietnam. Since then he has had a steady job and has been quite successful in his life. About two years ago one of his mates was classified as TPI for depression. My relative then discovered he was depressed, gave up work and displayed all the signs of depression. He was given TPI status and since has made an amazing recovery. You may think I’m being hard but I am really starting to doubt the validity of many of these sort of claims. You only need say the right thing to the right doctors and suddenly your financial circumstances improve. I have been a full time firefighter for 22 years and have seen some blokes come down hard with mental problems but it would be less than .5% of men and generally you would say they were probably pre disposed to it. As soon as you reward an illness with no physical symptoms you will see an increase in those claiming to suffer that illness.
Frederick the Great of Prussia exhorting his troops in the midst of battle:
“Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben!”
(“Dogs! Do you want to live forever!”)
If he were alive today, such a remark would doubtless be followed by mass wailing of “i want my mummy” lawsuits and enforced sensitivity training.
I have the greatest respect for soldiers who have been in the way of danger and they should be well taken care of after the fact. After all, there is an implied contract between the state and the soldier to the effect that ex-servicemen get certain extra benefits dependents taken care of should they be killed.
However, this recent tendency of everybody to burst into tears at the slightest discomfort is very worrying and symptomatic of something deeply wrong with the state of society.
Don’t even get me started on contemporary Australian cynicism about high taxation (where it goes is perhaps even more of an obscenity than the fact that rates are too high) and the end result of this which is “I might as well get me me some of this free money since I can”.
On the subject of Frederick the Great, I highly recommend David Fraser’s biography.
As a mate of mine pointed out, these days almost everyone meets the criteria for a PTSD claim.
Got told off for bad work? PTSD
Minor traffic accident? PTSD
Bad relationship? you guessed it – PTSD
Ok while it might not have been as traumatic as ripping apart trenches at Lone Pine or charging at The Nek, holding back the hoardes at Kapyong or fighting for your life at Long Tan, Timor could be pretty rough too. How I remember the runny ice cream, lack of beer and only one crappy Asian business channel on the satellite TV.
Speak for yourself. I remember eyeballing a convoy of TNI and feeling like I was in the middle of a wild west shootout about to kick off. The later years were apparently very placid, but the first few weeks around the countryside were “interesting”.
Still, I’d rather work than try and bung on a turn for some cash. That’s just me.
A Veteran is just that a Veteran and should be treated the same,front
or not because I know some Vietnam Veterans that served in the rear &
they encountered some worse SHIT than I did..
And lay OFF our younger Veterans,because WHINGING is part of “PTSD”.
Read a book “Recovering From The War” by Patience H.C.Mason a highly
respected physiatrist in the USA and a wife of a Vietnam Veteran
Bob Mason author of “ChichenHawk” ..
“A man good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards…”
-Theodore Roosevelt
Grunt65
Grunt 65. Not much arguement from me. You’ll note I had a go at older vets as well. My point is spurious claims of PTSD not different wars. Reports from Afghanistan and Iraq would kill that arguement.
Re ‘ChickenHawke…for nearly 25 years I’ve listed the book as one of the best reads out of the Vietnam War and have read his wifes book and have seen them in interviews; and Teddy Roosevelt…well he’s dead right but amongst us veterans we can discuss validity of claims.
I remember one mate telling me he became a drunk after Vietnam. I reminded him he was a drunk before Vietnam….some men are predisposed to the problem and others react differently to a given set of circumstances and as Cav commented it is better a few bogus claims get up rather than one legitimate claim knocked back.
I guess it’s just the infantryman in me arcing up when I read of men who had a safe war getting treated the same as men who didn’t.